22-01-2004 22:30									#1
	MoO1 trying to run in XP, help !? Enter the AD-FREE zone

I am trying to get MoO1 to run in XP sp1.

I found Jon Sullivans page

http://www.jonsullivan.com/misc/moo_xp.htm

but when I follow these instructions (which are ambiguous re XMS or EMS as properties has both though I tried both) I get a message at the end of installation to emulate soundblaster saying that I have no EMS driver installed. When I run the tweaked Orion.exe shortcut it opens a dos box and it promptly quits.

I tried putting a config.nt in there with
"EMM=RAM"
but it didnt work.

I need guidance please

I nicked a copy of EMM386 out of a windows ME instal but am not sure where or how to run it or if it will help.

	23-01-2004 01:06									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I am using auto for all of the memory selections on the properties for the installer and the Orion.exe.
I have not needed to use a modified Config.nt or Autoexec.nt.

I would first install and try with no sound. Then if it works you can start playing with the audio settings. I have only gotten it to work use the original SB, no matter what card or motherboard I had.

	23-01-2004 05:05									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

it just wont run like that for me, maybe its my 1024 Mb RAM messing it up again, or perhaps my AMD Barton.

it wont run past game setup even using DOSbox 6.

	23-01-2004 05:41									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Well I have 1GB of PC3200 by Munchkin an dit is fine on 3GH Pent.
I haf an AMD 2100+ with a 1GB and it worked. Both XP. I have had 15-20 OC and they all ran it from Os/2 to XP, only one I never had was Win2000.

So what happens? Does the install run or not? If it run can you do the configure?

If you get that far, you should b golden. If it si Orion that fails, what is the msg?
If you do not see any msg, check the close on exit to be off.

	23-01-2004 05:44									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I should ask if this is a diskette or Cd version and is it a patched on the CD to 1.3 or not?
If it was a DL, it may have something missing. I have seen some isue with the one from the web.
If it is unpatched or not 1.3, copy the whole cd and then apply the patch. Then install.

	23-01-2004 07:22									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I haven't been able to get mine to work either, when I run install it says I don't have a ems driver.

	23-01-2004 07:57									#7
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My intall.exe is 115kb dated 10/28/1994. XP PRO SP1 with all latest criticl updates, but I doubt that matters as I use XP PRO before the service pack was out and it worked.

	23-01-2004 07:59									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Garth did your version come from a CD with 1.3 applied?
If not, I can zip my MPS directory, it is 11-12MB unzipped.
You can try it if you have DSL or cable.

	23-01-2004 13:02									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have the game from 2 sources, one is moo_all from J Sullivan, which runs ok on a p3 in WinME and is v1.3.

the other is a dl, self installer, from gamebird.dk also 1.3

edit/ ahem! this morning they will both run in dosbox, as I set Win95 emulation on the dosbox exe. but in dosbox it will not load saved games at the moment, so it is not ideal.

in my version of XP pro sp1 both versions say that

"you must have at least 1024k of expanded memory" in the dos window after running orion.exe (if I uncheck the close window option in the shortcut otherwise it just blinks on then off)

also the instal exe reports that I have no EMS driver after soundcard setup.

I have tried running in Win95 emulation mode, with 1024 EMS specified in the shortcut and it makes no difference. in fact I have tried several tens of permutations of the memory settings.

maybe I should try a different version, vmxa1 your offer of a zip sounds good, if its not too much trouble, but I bet you it will do the same !

Last edited by boolybooly on 23-01-2004 at 14:11

	23-01-2004 20:09									#10
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My Moo comes from disks then copied from HD to HD over 3-4 computers.

I could try your zip as I do have cable.

	23-01-2004 20:13									#11
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I am beginning to wonder if it is a bios level problem, this is an nForce2 mobo running DDR in dual channel mode and I wonder if it is bypassing elements of RAM control which still apply to my p3 rig as it has SDRAM. I will experiment with single channel mode.

I have tried running MoO from a WinME boot disk DOS prompt to its directory and I still get the "1024 expanded" error message.

I wonder what chipset Garth's rig uses ?

	23-01-2004 20:39									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have dual channel memory on my system. It is a hyperthreading Pent 3.066GH with PC3200 by Munchkin (1GB).

Anyway send me an email and I will send it. -vmxa+sbcglobal.net-

drop the dashes and replace the + with @. Hope it works. I hate to see people not be able to play Moo. I keep a system with Win98SE to run any games that XP is not happy with. It is funny that my previous XP system ran every game I had.
My current will not run Might and Magic VI/VII/VIII. It gets some problems with the cursor in Moo2 and Ascendancy.
I see no difference in the OS, so it must be hardware.

	23-01-2004 23:55									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'll send an email when I get home from work.

I don't remember all my specs off hand.

	24-01-2004 00:20									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks vmxa1, I unzipped and placed MPS\Orion in C: then (presuming that is all I have to do) as a test I ran the orion.exe and the shortcut without any further tweaks and still get exactly the same message that I need 1024 of EMS.

So that means my system is not providing EMS support properly. It was a fresh instal on a blank C: Any ideas ?

	24-01-2004 01:07									#15
	Suffering from ads?

Check your startup and unselect all apps not required. YOu can add then back later and they can be started manually.
Check the Win.ini and System.ini to see that all are checked.
Use MSCONFIG to do that. Look at the services to make sure you have not turned off any that are needed.

Set the desktop resolution to 16 bit.

	24-01-2004 15:46									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

I tried with no startup items and all win.ini and system.ini boxes checked, every single service checked and dt@16bit. Orion.exe produced exactly the same message about needing EMS.

I dont understand why I am not getting EMS or rather why MoO is not seeing EMS even when I manually specify EMS 1024 and Win95 emulation in the shortcut.

I have one folder with the autoexec and config files & shortcuts set up and in that one I tried a config.nt line calling EMM386.exe which I placed in windows root, currently it contains the following.

dos=high, umb
device=%SystemRoot%\system32\himem.sys
files=40
device=%SystemRoot%\emm386 RAM

and the shortcut is using this config file as it recognises when it has bad syntax in it, i just dont know if this works with XP *shrug* worth a try

I also changed memory settings and noticed that the Total memory always resets to auto when I close the shortcut properties, ie if I set it to 640 manually it wont stick so I get the feeling XP is ignoring me.

	24-01-2004 21:51									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I use auto for all of the mem settings.
Here is mine that I usd for MoM

REM Windows MS-DOS Startup File
REM ECHOCONFIG
REM NTCMDPROMPT
REM When you return to the command prompt from a TSR or while running an
REM MS-DOS-based application, Windows runs COMMAND.COM. This allows the
REM TSR to remain active. To run CMD.EXE, the Windows command prompt,
REM rather than COMMAND.COM, add the command ntcmdprompt to CONFIG.NT or
REM other startup file.
REM
REM DOSONLY
REM By default, you can start any type of application when running
REM COMMAND.COM. If you start an application other than an MS-DOS-based
REM application, any running TSR may be disrupted. To ensure that only
REM MS-DOS-based applications can be started, add the command dosonly to
REM CONFIG.NT or other startup file.
REM
REM EMM
REM You can use EMM command line to configure EMM(Expanded Memory Manager).
REM The syntax is:
REM
REM EMM = [A=AltRegSets] [B=BaseSegment] [RAM]
REM
REM AltRegSets
REM specifies the total Alternative Mapping Register Sets you
REM want the system to support. 1 <= AltRegSets <= 255. The
REM default value is 8.
REM BaseSegment
REM specifies the starting segment address in the Dos conventional
REM memory you want the system to allocate for EMM page frames.
REM The value must be given in Hexdecimal.
REM 0x1000 <= BaseSegment <= 0x4000. The value is rounded down to
REM 16KB boundary. The default value is 0x4000
REM RAM
REM specifies that the system should only allocate 64Kb address
REM space from the Upper Memory Block(UMB) area for EMM page frames
REM and leave the rests(if available) to be used by DOS to support
REM loadhigh and devicehigh commands. The system, by default, would
REM allocate all possible and available UMB for page frames.
REM
REM The EMM size is determined by pif file(either the one associated
REM with your application or _default.pif). If the size from PIF file
REM is zero, EMM will be disabled and the EMM line will be ignored.
REM
REM Add in EMM=RAM 7/6/02 for Mom and changed file=40 to 20
EMM=RAM
dos=high, umb
device=%SystemRoot%\system32\himem.sys
files=20

	24-01-2004 21:52									#18
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Autoexec.nt for MoM

@echo off

REM AUTOEXEC.BAT is not used to initialize the MS-DOS environment.
REM AUTOEXEC.NT is used to initialize the MS-DOS environment unless a
REM different startup file is specified in an application's PIF.

REM Install CD ROM extensions
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe

REM Install network redirector (load before dosx.exe)
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\redir

REM Install DPMI support
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx

REM The following line enables Sound Blaster 2.0 support on NTVDM.
REM The command for setting the BLASTER environment is as follows:
REM SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330
REM where:
REM A specifies the sound blaster's base I/O port
REM I specifies the interrupt request line
REM D specifies the 8-bit DMA channel
REM P specifies the MPU-401 base I/O port
REM T specifies the type of sound blaster card
REM 1 - Sound Blaster 1.5
REM 2 - Sound Blaster Pro I
REM 3 - Sound Blaster 2.0
REM 4 - Sound Blaster Pro II
REM 6 - SOund Blaster 16/AWE 32/32/64
REM
REM The default value is A220 I5 D1 T3 and P330. If any of the switches is
REM left unspecified, the default value will be used. (NOTE, since all the
REM ports are virtualized, the information provided here does not have to
REM match the real hardware setting.) NTVDM supports Sound Blaster 2.0 only.
REM The T switch must be set to 3, if specified.
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330 T3

REM To disable the sound blaster 2.0 support on NTVDM, specify an invalid
REM SB base I/O port address. For example:
REM SET BLASTER=A0

	24-01-2004 21:56									#19
	Tired of ads?

device=%SystemRoot%\emm386 RAM

The command for my Win98SE is
Device=C:\Windows\emm386.exe

The RAM part should not be needed, but I have at times used the
E:2048 form or whatever the syntax is, I forget now. This is added after the em386 entry.

	26-01-2004 04:57									#20
	Tired of ads?

I've tried and tried to get it to work on my win2k machine (toshiba laptop). It just won't go no matter what I do to the pif and/or the config.nt file.

What I'm seeing is that there is no space available to actually load emm in the 1000 to 4000 block the comment states it requires:
C:\DOCUME~1\500755~1>mem /d

Address Name Size Type
------- -------- ------ ------
000000 000400 Interrupt Vector
000400 000100 ROM Communication Area
000500 000200 DOS Communication Area

000700 IO 000370 System Data
CON System Device Driver
AUX System Device Driver
PRN System Device Driver
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver

000A70 MSDOS 001630 System Data
CLOCK$ System Device Driver
COM1 System Device Driver
LPT1 System Device Driver
LPT2 System Device Driver
LPT3 System Device Driver
COM2 System Device Driver
COM3 System Device Driver
COM4 System Device Driver

000A70 MSDOS 001630 System Data

0020A0 IO 001450 System Data
KBD 000CD0 System Program
HIMEM 0004E0 DEVICE=
XMSXXXX0 Installed Device Driver
0000B0 FILES=
000030 FCBS=
000170 LASTDRIVE=
003500 COMMAND 000A20 Program
003F30 MSDOS 000070 -- Free --
003FB0 COMMAND 000680 Environment
004640 DOSX 0087A0 Program


I've tried alot of changes to the config.nt and by lowering files to 10 and stack to the min, etc. I finally managed to get that block from 3F30 to 3FB0 to go free, but its just not enough free space for the ems driver to load.

Not sure what else can be done really, for now I've just given up.

	26-01-2004 07:25									#21
	Suffering from ads?

Win2K is not very game friendly. If you could control the driver loaded in that address space, maybe. I know I used to have to do that in DOS to get enough conventional free.

Other wise get a boot disk for win98 and use it with no CD support. Moo1 does not need a CD or sound drivers or even any VGA support.

	26-01-2004 19:05									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

http://www.bootdisk.com/

I tried everything inside out and back to front. So bootdisk it is

	26-01-2004 19:40									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

I do not belive it, well I do but its not good news.

I tried a win98 OEM bootdisk and a win95B bootdisk and in both cases, with both copies of the game ie vmxa1's as well as mine it gave exactly the same 1024 EMS error message.

But thats interesting as it means it is undoubtedly a platform problem.

FYI platform = Epox 8RDA+ nForce2, BIOS 2003/10/17 (latest), AMDBarton "2500" 1.8gig, 1024 Mb TwinMOS ram (Winbond chips).

So I will make amention of this in the appropriate forums. Thanks for your help though everyone at least I have the P3!

	26-01-2004 21:24									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wow, I have had many AMD box with Win9x and XP work. Maybe it is the nforce2.

	26-01-2004 22:31									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks for the files vmxa, but they didn't work for me either.

I have been getting the same message as booly and have a similar machine.

I can't seem to get it recognize EMS. I did some fiddling for the config.nt and autoexec.nt files but no success.

	27-01-2004 02:03									#26
	Get a bigger avatar today!

very intersting Garth, may I ask the mobo ram cpu bios specs of your machine ? (& chipset revision number if you have it (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php))

	27-01-2004 06:57									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I can play it with the dosbox emulator. It runs a tad slowly (mostly on end turn), but is playable.

Note for anyone wanting to try it, I've had better luck with version .58 than .60 with speed. The .60 version maxes out my cpu at about 6000 cycles per second (which still lags between clicking a ship/system and the response). With the .58 version I can get to almost 8000 cycles per second and it runs fairly smoothly except when changing screens (ie diplomacy).

If it helps I have a Toshiba 2435 S-255 notebook.

2.4 gz Pentium 4, 512 meg of ram, built in geforce 420go.

No floppy drive though, so boot disks are out.

(Don't feel too bad for me though, I also have an older 400 mz amd K-6 that runs moo1 just fine )

	27-01-2004 08:43									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That really stinks. I can't understand why it is not working. I have had an AMD and two Pent system run XP PRO and all worked with no issues. Really nasty.
In the Win.INI from MSCONFIG does it have the 16 bit support checked? All of my entries are checked.
System.INI 386enh checked?

	27-01-2004 17:47									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This thread discusses a bunch of tweaks for XP that may be worth checking out wervdon and others if you have not done so already.

	27-01-2004 19:45									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That cpuid link doesn't seem to be working, I think I have it at work actually, I will look when I get there.