22-01-2004 23:13									#1
	Official Poll: Removing War Weariness Got spare money?

Lucky has played his games for long enough. We can erase our war weariness by declaring war on CFC then making peace, thus ending this issue. Lucky then can drag his feet all he likes, it won't affect us any more. Right now, it's costing us 20 GPT to remain in this cold war.

Should we war-and-peace with CFC now to erase our WW? Yes or No. 3 Days.

	22-01-2004 23:16									#2
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Have you confirmed that this works?

	22-01-2004 23:20									#3
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I personally have not, but I have been told that it does indeed work by more than one person.

	23-01-2004 00:32									#4
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I tested it and it didn't work.

	23-01-2004 00:50									#5
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Do it. Lucky is exploiting the game engine to screw us over. I see no reason why we shouldn't render any leverage he has on us worthless.

(Trip, are you sure this'd work?)

	23-01-2004 01:20									#6
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The only way for this to even half way work is for CFC to declare war on us. That way we get the happiness bonus for 5 turns which would counter the WW, but, only for 5 turns. But, then, we could do peace, then have them redeclare. I'm in the middle of the road on this issue though. I will wait a bit before I vote.

	23-01-2004 01:24									#7
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Yes absolutely.

If What GCA did wasnt an exploit, what GWT did wasn't an exploit, then what we would do is Definitely not an exploit.

	23-01-2004 01:33									#8
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It's a clothespin vote, but I think yes has it.

	23-01-2004 02:36									#9
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I tested it and it didn't work.

Hmmm... what all did you actually do to test this?

	23-01-2004 03:38									#10
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If it works, then yes (, I hope we wouldn't go through with it even if it didn't work )

	23-01-2004 03:45									#11
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Not if it doesn't actually work, nor if we have to continually redeclare war and peace every 5 turns.

But if it DOES work and we only need to do this once, heck, I'm frustrated enough with Lucky that I'll agree to it.

--Togas

	23-01-2004 04:54									#12
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What if we were to drop a unit on GWT land to force them to attack us. How long would we get positive WW from that?

	23-01-2004 05:18									#13
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Doesn't losing freindly units in enemy territory increase WW?

	23-01-2004 07:50									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Not if it doesn't actually work, nor if we have to continually redeclare war and peace every 5 turns. But if it DOES work and we only need to do this once, heck, I'm frustrated enough with Lucky that I'll agree to it. --Togas

What Togas said

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Doesn't losing freindly units in enemy territory increase WW?

Yes, but having war declared on you yields a signifigant improvement; more than losing a single unit.

	23-01-2004 09:56									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Hmmm... what all did you actually do to test this?

I set up a scenario with 5 civs and had one of them declare war on another and park in the defenders territory. After about 30 turns with no attacks, WW hit the attacking civ.

I then withdrew and saw that WW went away. Then advanced again and it came back right away.

Then I DoWar on a third civ and made peace right away. WW did not go down.

	23-01-2004 14:07									#16
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I too thought that the bonus only applied if you were declared war upon - an act of nationalistic outrage, as it were. Moreover when you go back to peace I thought the bonus went away, although I am less sure about the old WW coming back.

This is too uncertain to succeed for me right now. If this is cleared with Mongoose (or whoever now Administrates the game) then fine, but I wouldn't like us to abuse a game mechanic like this without permission, even to counteract another game abuse mechanic.

	23-01-2004 17:39									#17
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If we do this, what will we start doing next?? maybe something like reloading saves??

E_T

	24-01-2004 00:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by E_T If we do this, what will we start doing next?? maybe something like reloading saves?? E_T

It's definitely an exploit, but we would be using it to fight another exploit. Perhaps still not entirely ethical, but definitely justified IMO.

Though it now sounds like it doesn't work, so no reason to try it in that case...

	24-01-2004 01:48									#19
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quote: Originally posted by E_T If we do this, what will we start doing next?? maybe something like reloading saves??

It's an exploit employed for the sole purpose of erasing the effects of another team using an exploit against us. You cannot compare that reasoning with reloading saves.

	24-01-2004 01:58									#20
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I'm voting no.

Three reasons:

1) I don't see it as signicantly different from reloading saves. You could argue that we are just doing that to combat the fact that GCA is doing it to us, and we need the extra victories to counteract our unreasonable losses due to their exploits.

2) I'm not sure it'd even work.

3) If it comes down to this: Having to exploit/cheat to counter exploiting/cheating against us, then I think we ought to just withdraw from the game in protest rather than lowering our own standards to compensate.

	24-01-2004 04:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by wervdon I'm voting no. Three reasons: 1) I don't see it as signicantly different from reloading saves. You could argue that we are just doing that to combat the fact that GCA is doing it to us, and we need the extra victories to counteract our unreasonable losses due to their exploits. 2) I'm not sure it'd even work. 3) If it comes down to this: Having to exploit/cheat to counter exploiting/cheating against us, then I think we ought to just withdraw from the game in protest rather than lowering our own standards to compensate.

Well said. I've been thinking about this for a few days, but I am in complete agreement with Wervdon. If we start stooping to Lucky's level then it's not a strategy game, it's a game of who can exploit the game mechanics the best.

	24-01-2004 05:57									#22
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Can someone actually confirm that this works to remove the uncertainty there? I would vote against this whether we know it works or not, but it is COMPLETE madness to consider it where there is doubt about whether it would actually make a difference or not!

	26-01-2004 00:16									#23
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The bill is passed.

	27-01-2004 03:24									#24
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Anyone?

	27-01-2004 03:29									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MJW Anyone?

Hello.

If it does indeed not work as NYE said, then there's little point in attempting it. I started the poll under the assumption that it did in fact work as that is what I've been told in the past.

	28-01-2004 17:24									#26
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Well thank God for THAT. I was kinda scared looking at the poll results....

	29-01-2004 06:06									#27
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I think you have to kill an allied unit first to make it work. I can not run civ3 anymore so can someone make other sim?

	29-01-2004 07:21									#28
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I set up a scenario with 5 civs and had one of them declare war on another and park in the defenders territory. After about 30 turns with no attacks, WW hit the attacking civ. I then withdrew and saw that WW went away. Then advanced again and it came back right away. Then I DoWar on a third civ and made peace right away. WW did not go down.

I thought you had to get the third civ to declare war on you for it to work.
ie you get a boost from national pride.
Of course, that means CFC will have to remain at war with us for us to maintain the bonus ?
But would it matter if they did ? So long as they dont have units in our territory, they dont get WW.