23-01-2004 08:43									#1
	Firaxis: It's Not Fair! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

You set it up so that I can no longer attack other civs' cities with my hidden nationality land units. I don't really mind that, but you didn't give the AI the same limitation. That gives it a big advantage over me when using those units, and one that I'm not crazy about. If you're going to limit my options that way, the AI should have to play by the same rules.

	23-01-2004 08:45									#2
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Huh?

	23-01-2004 09:04									#3
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So the AI can attack you without triggering war, but you trigger war if you attack them?

	23-01-2004 09:08									#4
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Willem, are you playing a scenario or an epic game?

	23-01-2004 09:30									#5
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the only hidden nationality unit i know of is the privateer. also ive never seen the computer build one.

Last edited by AAHZ on 23-01-2004 at 09:53

	23-01-2004 10:04									#6
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if you want the AI to build privateers, then up the attack strength to 4 and the open sees will become dangerous - trust me. You won't make the mistake twice of letting your transport vessel go unprotected.
Just make sure you let the privateer be upgradeable to destroyers (its expensive so don't worry), or else the AI won't stop building them.


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on subject, i think he is talking about edited units where he has attached the hidden nationality flag.

Funny thing is, sometimes i can attack a city with a hidden nationality unit, but sometimes i can't. And i can't figure out why. Improvements don't seem to do anything 'special' and are not extraordinary.

	23-01-2004 11:20									#7
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Sure sounds like it is not a std game.

	23-01-2004 13:20									#8
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I haven't experienced anything like that. What are the "hidden nationality land units" you are using?

	23-01-2004 17:54									#9
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Please investigate further on that because the official patch will be closed within days,therefore if the Editor or the game itself have any flaws,we have to spot them out now,before it's too late to fix them


Thanks


Boomer

	23-01-2004 20:44									#10
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IIRC, the Ninjas in the Sengoku Conquest have hidden nationality. This may be what is meant.

	23-01-2004 23:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither So the AI can attack you without triggering war, but you trigger war if you attack them?

No, I don't trigger a war with them, I just can't attack a city. If I try, nothing happens, no combat no nothing. But in my last game, the AI destroyed one of my cities and razed it.

	23-01-2004 23:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Willem, are you playing a scenario or an epic game?

I'm obviously playing a mod since there are no hidden nationality land units in the normal game. There shoud be though, they make things interesting.

	23-01-2004 23:13									#13
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quote: Originally posted by TheArsenal IIRC, the Ninjas in the Sengoku Conquest have hidden nationality. This may be what is meant.

No these are units I created myself, with the Hidden Nationality flag attached.

	24-01-2004 00:19									#14
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There are a lot of intriging moddng ideas in this thread.
Thanks guys.

However, personnally I generally like the idea of allowing the AI a few cheats.

Yet, I hope you will not throw the bathtub at me for this.

	24-01-2004 00:24									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Willem No, I don't trigger a war with them, I just can't attack a city. If I try, nothing happens, no combat no nothing. But in my last game, the AI destroyed one of my cities and razed it.

When they attacked with the Hidden Nationality unit were there any defenders in the city?

	24-01-2004 23:35									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Antrine There are a lot of intriging moddng ideas in this thread. Thanks guys. However, personnally I generally like the idea of allowing the AI a few cheats. Yet, I hope you will not throw the bathtub at me for this.

I don't mind the AI having a few cheats, but this one is pretty drastic. It can take over a city in peacetime and there'd be nothing I can do about it short of declaring war and taking it back.

	24-01-2004 23:38									#17
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker When they attacked with the Hidden Nationality unit were there any defenders in the city?

One time there was and fortunately I had the city fairly well defended so it wasn't able to take it. The last time it happened there wasn't. It was a fairly new city that had come out of a goody hut and I didn't have time to build a defender when the hidden nationality unit suddenly appeared out of nowhere. I hadn't even made official contact with the civ yet.

	25-01-2004 00:03									#18
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I figured out what it is! In some of the Conquests, there are Wonders, SW's, and/or improvements that make it so that you can't attack the city with Hidden Nationality units. One example is the Inquisition (a renamed Forbidden Palace) in the Middle Ages Conquest.

	26-01-2004 03:59									#19
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker I figured out what it is! In some of the Conquests, there are Wonders, SW's, and/or improvements that make it so that you can't attack the city with Hidden Nationality units. One example is the Inquisition (a renamed Forbidden Palace) in the Middle Ages Conquest.

No, that's not the reason. When I first discovered that I couldn't attack, I was going after a city that had just been built. There weas nothing in it except for a Spearman.

	26-01-2004 05:49									#20
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You can't attack cities with hidden nationality units if you aren't at war with that civ. The AI has exactly the same rule in regard to this, they don't get any advantage over you.

	26-01-2004 07:28									#21
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Thanks for the clarification Merepatra.

	26-01-2004 17:46									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Merepatra You can't attack cities with hidden nationality units if you aren't at war with that civ. The AI has exactly the same rule in regard to this, they don't get any advantage over you.

What version are you talking about here? In the beta for the DYP successor (RAR) there are hidden nat. land units, and I have seen cities attacked by them (both empty and non-empty) when I was not at war with anyone. This was under 1.15. I haven't attacked an AI city with them (since they are fairly weak compared to regular defenders, and the AI doesn't seem to leave cities undefended very often.)

	26-01-2004 22:24									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Merepatra You can't attack cities with hidden nationality units if you aren't at war with that civ. The AI has exactly the same rule in regard to this, they don't get any advantage over you.

That's not true. The last time the AI attacked my city, I hadn't even made official contact with them. Another time we had been at war a short while before but we had already made peace when it attacked with it's Hidden Nationality units.