26-01-2004 19:24									#61
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@ CerberusIV

	26-01-2004 19:30									#62
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It is tough for southerners in the north, too many *******s like Stew around treating you like crap just for being southern. At least in the south everyone treats everyone else equally with indifference.

Seriously though for your field of education most jobs in the country are around this area, try places like Winchester and Southampton if you don't like London or whatever.

	26-01-2004 19:30									#63
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Funnilly enough, I had to get out of Hackney because the popular thought was "work is for fools".

Maybe it's not so much the location as the company? Some companies encourage their employees, others just seem to bring ya down.

Best of luck with finding your niche - but don't the all the south is work oriented, because it isn't.

	26-01-2004 19:31									#64
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"Of course the North South divide may be it. Is it that bad in England. And is there really that much difference in such a small confined space to begin with. I've never been there so I'm ignorant on the differences between a Londener and someone from the north."

It's not really "southerners" that northerners tend to take a dislike to. It's the general character they tyend to have.

ie, if you hear someone trying to out-shout everyone in a pub (even if it isn't even that loud), it will be a southerner.

Things I associate with southerners:

Drinking alcopops
Blonde spiked "messy" gay hair
Arrogant
Loud
Effeminate

Northerners:

A bit more rough
More swearing
More likely to have a fight
Down to earth

Most northerners grew up in, if not rough areas, then in areas where there was a rough fringe, and by making yourself "noticed" when out and about was an invitation to be a victim of someone. So we keep ourselves to ourselves. We are typical Englishmen. Southerners have affected too much by foreigners and their poncy ways - hugging and kissing when they meet, rather than a nod, saying "pleased to meet you" when leaving someone rather than "see yer later mate".

Of course to a southerner we may seem uncultured or whatever, but I don't give a crap. I don't false airs and graces, and it REALLY makes me uncomfortable when I have to start kissing relatively unknown acquantainces on the cheek just because it's custom.

Northerners keep their distance, yet are more loyal as friends.

Saying all this, I know a few decent people from down south, but in general their accents aren't as bad and they behave more like northerners.

	26-01-2004 19:35									#65
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Luckily we aren't that predjudiced down here. Probably because we are more used to Northerners coming down here to work, whereas hardly any southerners would go up north 'cause there aren't any jobs.

	26-01-2004 19:36									#66
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And if Stew finds it uncomfortable when foxy girls want to kiss him that's up to him. That's not really a custom though, she's just a bit of a lovey.

	26-01-2004 19:38									#67
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Oh, that wasn't too bad Mike, thought it was rather pointless and empty.

	26-01-2004 19:39									#68
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Yeah, of course the south is richer, but you have as many problems associated with that wealth than we have problems associated with the lack of it.

	26-01-2004 19:43									#69
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By all means try moving. But it is my experience that when someone moves to escape problems like this the problems move with them.

Something you could try, while waiting for that opportunity to move perhaps, is to come to terms with the gap between how you perceive yourself and how you believe others see you.

For a man to feel undervalued at work is rather the rule than the exception so I'm not sure you are necessarily right about that side of things. But if you are - well imagining that the development of a career depends on doing a good job and nothing more is a mistake. Doing a good job is a help to progress but if you look at anyone who is managing to climb a few rungs on the greasy pole you see that they do many other things as well. If developing a local accent helps, well do it. And do anything else to ingratiate yourself with those whose opinion of you affects your prospects.

If you feel above that sort of thing it is generally better to attempt to check your ambitions or re-channel them to those (severely limited) fields where the opinion of others does not determine progress.

Turning to your social life, well granted the opinions you hold of those who share your present locality it simply isn't too surprising that you run into some adverse opinions back the other way.

In general the starting point to being accepted is to find the people around you interesting.

And it is not foolish to do so. When I was young I did summer jobs in factories. Few of my workmates had advanced far in their education but there was hardly a one of them who did not show intelligence and detailed knowledge of one matter or another in which he had developed an interest. The notion that your own education sets you apart comes from you, not from those around you.

And it is a mistake.

	26-01-2004 19:45									#70
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Come on EST there could have been some north-south *****ing in there

	26-01-2004 19:50									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Yeah, of course the south is richer, but you have as many problems associated with that wealth than we have problems associated with the lack of it.

Yes, but your jealous predjudice against us is a bit out of order, not our fault we're richer, better educated, more sophisticated etc. Total shame when a nice northern boy like PH get's people being predjudiced against him. He'll be fine down here.

	26-01-2004 20:01									#72
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PA, there could.

But few to-day live in the same locality all their lives. So most everyone gets to tackle fitting in.

I have moved half a dozen times as an adult and spent a childhood moving every three years (my dad was then in the army). I have not myself noticed the sort of prejudice to which Provost attaches such significance lasting more than a year or two.

And that is not because I am such a wonderfully popular character that I win people over by sheer charisma. Nor do those others I see getting settled in a new locality rely on that.

Provost is plainly not an arrogant and stand-offish person. Witness his posts here.

But his posts in this thread show that he attaches labels to himself and to others based on academic achievements.

Which, as I say, is a mistake.

	26-01-2004 20:14									#73
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PH, should try a move. Yeah, there is other stuff he needs to fix, but a move might be a nice start. Go backpack around Australia for a summer or something.

	26-01-2004 20:17									#74
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Be realistic Georgey! Thr furthest he'll go is Amsterdam

	26-01-2004 20:21									#75
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I thought Brits go to South Africa and Australia all the time. You know. The pink countries. Maybe some sun would cheer him up.

	26-01-2004 20:25									#76
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I think he needs to go home to China.

	26-01-2004 20:34									#77
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PH, now that you've made the choice to move you need to consider what type of jobs to go after. There's probably no need to stay in the manufacturing/product control side of things. Wasnt your research area neurobiology? Thats a pretty hot topic within many Pharma companies cos of all the anti-depressants etc. With that experience, you may want to turn to the medical writing/administrative side of the industry. Its not terribly exciting, but the pay is great especially once you're in for a few years.

	27-01-2004 04:50									#78
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When I was a child I was prone to homesickness.

As an adult, I moved 11 times in 15 years - including twice to foreign countries. I'm perfectly portable now - go figure. I'll probably retire in a foreign land.

One thing about Europeans I notice is that they can get very rooted to one spot. It's quite staggering to me that for example someone could could grow up in England but never been to the continent. But apparently that's still quite common.

	27-01-2004 05:08									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue I think he needs to go home to China.

WTF are you talking about? I had enough of that childish namecalling at primary school. However you are 21

	27-01-2004 05:10									#80
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Well you see I don't find the people in my present place of work at all hostile...I am well respected and liked and this has always been the case, which is why I get very suspicious over this Novartis business. As I said, someone has taken a very quick dislike to me and got rid...don't know why or what for. I am happy in my present place of work but the pay is crap...

	27-01-2004 05:48									#81
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It's all about you, all the time, stop gazing at your navel.

As Chekhov put it:

"he imagined he was a simple ordinary man, that he was walking quickly, cheerfully through the fields, tapping with his stick, while above him was the open sky bathed in sunshine, and that he was free now as a bird and could go where he liked."

That's you if you want to be, you Ninny.

	27-01-2004 07:24									#82
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quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Park Avenue [/ It's not really "southerners" that northerners tend to take a dislike to. It's the general character they tyend to have. ie, if you hear someone trying to out-shout everyone in a pub (even if it isn't even that loud), it will be a southerner. Things I associate with southerners: Drinking alcopops Blonde spiked "messy" gay hair Arrogant Loud Effeminate Northerners: A bit more rough More swearing More likely to have a fight Down to earth Most northerners grew up in, if not rough areas, then in areas where there was a rough fringe, and by making yourself "noticed" when out and about was an invitation to be a victim of someone. So we keep ourselves to ourselves. We are typical Englishmen. Southerners have affected too much by foreigners and their poncy ways - hugging and kissing when they meet, rather than a nod, saying "pleased to meet you" when leaving someone rather than "see yer later mate". Of course to a southerner we may seem uncultured or whatever, but I don't give a crap. I don't false airs and graces, and it REALLY makes me uncomfortable when I have to start kissing relatively unknown acquantainces on the cheek just because it's custom. Northerners keep their distance, yet are more loyal as friends. Saying all this, I know a few decent people from down south, but in general their accents aren't as bad and they behave more like northerners.

Straight out of a bad makeover of a Monty Python sketch. Displays all the ignorance and fatuous prejudice we've come to expect from the Clot of the North.

These cliches might make for a poor ill-informed joke in a cheap second hand joke book flogged on Blackpool Pleasure Beach (an oxymoron, believe me), but as an accurate picture of the North-South divide all they depict with any degree of certainty is the vast Milton Keynes inside the head of the emigre sheep shagger.

I wonder where the rough fringe of Altrincham and Wilmslow are meant to be, Lardy Boy? Hulme? Moss Side?

	27-01-2004 13:12									#83
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Cheshire is hardly the typical northern county now is it..

And Lardy? Ha..you really don't know who you are talking to.

	27-01-2004 16:56									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Cheshire is hardly the typical northern county now is it.. And Lardy? Ha..you really don't know who you are talking to.

Judging by the content of your usual posts, there's plenty of lard between your ears.

Unfortunately we get the benefit of your excremental maunderings, not the pork fat.

	27-01-2004 19:42									#85
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Cheshire? Wonderful cheese!

	28-01-2004 00:06									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Cheshire is hardly the typical northern county now is it..

Well it's like a posh extension of Manchester, like what East Yorkshire is to Hull

	28-01-2004 00:19									#87
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Cardiff (lots of family there, seems like a nice enough city). You certainly sound like you need to move.

-Arrian

	28-01-2004 00:24									#88
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Well it is all a matter of spotting the right job. Manchester would be a marvellous place - decent cost of living, already have contacts there and the jobs pay a lot better...but no opportunity has ever come to fruition for quite exasperating reasons...alas to a point where it is seeming like a place of broken dreams with the number of interviews I have had there.

	28-01-2004 00:33									#89
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Come to the bay area, CA... plenty of QA posts looking for stuck up ppl... cost of living sucks though.

	28-01-2004 00:41									#90
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The cost of living in London is also ridiculous...probably more so than SF...I think only Tokyo beats it