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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:33
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quote:
Of all the intellectuals I know, all of them are liberal.
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Whaleboy:
Small sample size?
I've worked a variety of jobs, I tend to do a different one every summer. I've worked as a treeplanter, a delivery driver, an office assistant, and an inventory clerk. I have been very fortunate to meet an incredible number of very different people in all of these occupations.
In my delivery job, I went from being one of many students, to being on my lonesome. I had my favorite summer ever, in just sitting and talking to my coworkers and their very different lives, with kids, and families.
I suggest you try something like this. Don't take a traditional student job, just go work. It will change your life.
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:33
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quote:
This isn't a debate. You came here with a problem, and people are trying to give suggestions as to what is wrong.
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Nope, my personal situation is merely an example. This thread was the intention of presenting a general issue so we can discuss it. What is wrong with me is a combination of peoples lack of acceptance of what I do, my unwillingness to stop reading and working in the canteen, for example, and social ineptness in that I avoid people that I dont naturally associate with.
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If you would look again at my post, you would see that I did not make a refutation of your statement as to whether it is true or not.
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A general comment
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And then you go on with that codescending post with the idiot smiley and all.
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Condescending? Dude lighten up!
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Perhaps an obession about being right and debating is part of the problem?
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Not true. If someone presents me with a better argument, I would happily abandon my own and adopt the new one, as has happened many times in my life. A debate is not an example of penis envy.
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Regardless of what you said is true or not, positing a correlation between intellectualism and ideology reeks of arrogance and is likely to annoy people.
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Oh I'm sure it does, but you would be better off by looking at my argument and giving it a critical analysis, state what is wrong and right about it, not offer my axioms and regurgitated political correctness about certain groups of people and ideas.
Be aware that I do not communicate those views anywhere other than the internet thus far. The two issues are entirely separate.
quote:
Read over your posts in this thread. It shouldn't be too hard to see why you provoke hostility in people.
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Yet most people are seemingly able to read and be logical with my posts, and get involved in a good constructive, non hostile debate.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:33
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quote:
Intellectual by my definition?
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Then perhaps your problem lies here. How do you define an intellectual?
Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 25-01-2004 at 05:25
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Park Avenue
The fact is "intellectuals" tend to be stuck talking about IQ and their little theories, rather than looking at what works in practice. Ideologies and intellect can only figure so much - and only then when they themselves affect practice. |
I agree with regards to ideologies. But IQs measure certain forms of logic, such as spacial awareness, numberical and verbal ability, logic in statements, etc. IMHO that's a good test of intelligence, but that's my opinion.
I have a high IQ, but I would not consider myself someone preoccupied by ideologies, at least not ones that do not directly relate to the real world.
With regards to the anti-intellectualism, I know that it is rife among schools, whereby people will even fail exams in order to fit in with others. Teachers know of the problem, but it is hard to get away from. However this is usually confined to those that are introverts. Outgoing people seem to have less problems.
In later life I think it is apparent. As Provost suggests in his thread about the North, some places do not like people because they are educated to a higher degree, or because they have done better. It's a very British (so it seems) form of reverse snobbery, and jealousy. Having said that, I do not suffer from it, at least no more than I gain from it. On discovering I got a place at Oxford, my boss said "this must be a piece of cake for you" and has left me alone to do it my way, safe in the knowledge that I will come through with the goods in the end. Old friends, whether they are at uni or are working come up and talk to me and seem to respect my opinions because of what I achieved at school, and the way they perceive my intelligence. People I meet through friends are congratulatory about achievements and the like. I never got too much reverse snobbery at school because I did athletics and rugby for the school, and there was team mentality that meant you weren't seen as a geek. I don't see much reverse snobbery relating to me, more the other way round, but I have seen it many times. It is abig problem in the UK, where people can be looked down upon because they went to a good university, etc. It seems to be a mostly British problem, and it is serious, in that it holds back a lot of achievement here, such as when high-minded ideas are not given proper funding, because "it's just a bunch of academics, they know nothing of the real world" sort of mentality that is rife here. However personally I don't have much of a problem with it, but I'm lucky, in that most of the people I meet or speak to do not feel such a need to pull down those that do well, because of jealousy.
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:33
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Yes. I can understand why someone would see you as arrogant, because you try to accurately state your ability at things. Thus sometimes you go too high, sometimes too low. Generally, society seems to want people to dumb down, and pretend their less able than they are, or rather, not to state how able they are. Once someone gets to know you they realise it's not arrogance, at least, not a bad form. It's honesty.
I however, while arguing against dumbing down, will never try to state that I am as able at something as I think I am. I feel uncomfortable talking about my achievements, and would rather play them down. Sometimes it is necessary, but I always feel very embarresed when I have to say. Which is why only those very close to me know things like my IQ.
Last edited by Drogue on 25-01-2004 at 06:00
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:33
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quote:
What's an "educational field" exactly? And you mentioned recreation as well.
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Well one can be an academic and get paid for doing such a thing, or one can do it in ones own time, for example, first time writers.
Education field? Well use your common sense really. Something of academic study, literature, philosophy, politics, law, art, sociology, psychology, classics, media, languages, the list goes on and on...
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy
Incidentally, the situation you describe is an example of anti-intellectualism.
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Sorry you're wrong.
I don't know you, so I'm probably not qualified to say the following, but....
I think people are turned off more from your personality than your "intellect." I know that's a hard thing to admit, its far easier to blame why you are unpopular on a vague notion of anti-whatever discrimination, that way you are not personally accountable for the impression you leave on others. And, frankly, its just a fact of life that not everybody you meet will like you, for whatever reason (hygiene, the way you laugh, annoying habits, etc) so why seek out an uber-reason that people don't like you? Some grand conspiracy. If I were Jewish, and someone didn't like me, would I automatically assume that the person was anti-semitic? I will admit, however, that I acted similarly when I was your age, 18 from your profile, the world rotating around my navel, etc. etc. Its something that you grow out of. Hopefully you will have as rewarding an adventure out of adolescence as I have. 
(note, I do agree that anti-intellecualism does exist, however, I think that as much of the "problem" lies with the intellectual as the anti-intellectual, for many of the reasons listed by other posters above.)
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Standup
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I think what annoys me about intellectualism is the need to dress it up with concepts and ideas and show off. In particular books. One forum i was involved in had a big debate about how valid someone's contribution was if all they said was "its good, i enjoyed it" or similar. It was generally the 'intellectuals' who criticised them becuase they'd either missed the reference to Lithuanian folklore or whatever so how could they possibly understand and therefore have enjoyed the book. To me if someone enjoys a poem/book etc then thats good enough. Its like reviews in the paper that don't actually tell you anything much about the novel but exist only for the author to show how much time he's spent in academia rather than the real world.
But as someone said i don't think you're (whaleboy) picked on because you're an intellectual but because noone likes a show off (which i guess is how many people would view you). And i'm not being personal but every class i've ever been in the person who answers questions/ ask questions is always hated. All most people do is what to keep their head down and get it over with.
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25-01-2004 04:23
Such a shame when our country has such a problem with reverse snobbery that people get fired for doing too good a job 
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