25-01-2004 02:43									#1
	Sun Tzu's The Art of War, the book Increase the size of your Attachments

Have you read The Art of War? Or other books concerning warfare, like Clausewitz's book, which title currently escapes me.

If so, do you feel that their theories and teachings have improved Your combat results? Can they even be implemented in such a large scale? (Stationing yourself on a hill to let the enemy tire itself goming for you is kinda obvious in the bonuses of the combat system)

	25-01-2004 03:17									#2
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Some of the basic philosophy can be quite helpful. However, much of its discussion on tactics is period-specific to Sun-tzu, and as such not terribly useful to Civ-style combat. For example, in Sun-tzu 's time and place (western Chou in the "Spring and Autumn" period), cities were not strategically important, so it made more sense to avoid the cost of taking them by meeting the enemy in the field. In other contexts (including Civ) targeting cities is crucial to success. As with any other source, the context of the strategy matters. Still useful, though.

And the Clausewitz book is "On War" IIRC.

I would at to the list any of Trotsky's writings on combat.

jon.

	25-01-2004 03:33									#3
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Read lots of strategy books on war and none help at al lwith civ .. it not structured at that level to play normal strategy

	25-01-2004 04:26									#4
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I had already learned all that was in The Art of War long ago, from a vast combination of sources over 20-30 years. I just read the book for the 1st time last September.

	25-01-2004 06:47									#5
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I have read most of the significant military strategy books. Sun Tzu is applicable, in parts (e.g., choose the battlefield; know the enemy, know yourself; etc.).

When it comes to Civ though... I'll take Vel or Aeson, Arrian or Catt, Sir Ralph or Nathan, and many other worthies before looking to apply RL.

	25-01-2004 11:47									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin Read lots of strategy books on war and none help at al lwith civ .. it not structured at that level to play normal strategy

I agree with the Professor.

	26-01-2004 03:41									#7
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Everything I know about war I learned from the Discovery Channel and "Dad's Army"

Oh and reading "King Solomon's Mines" when I was 11.

	27-01-2004 22:35									#8
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First, let me commend you for including a banana-related option in the poll (each poll should have one).

To the topic... I did read Sun Tzu during my first MP Civ game, which I won overwhelmingly during the warring-phase of the game. Sun Tzu is a short book, so it wasn't hard to absorb in between waiting for other players to file their turns.

I found the read valuable in that it reminded me of a number of important considerations when laying out strategy, as well as a few useful tactics. I can't claim that it taught me much, but it was a nice collection of good ideas regarding war. It certainly helped me focus on keeping conflicts short and winnable, as opposed to launching weaker attacks that trigger draining, long-duration wars.

In the Civ context, obviously Sun Tzu doesn't tell you to rush granaries or anything like that - for this you are better off with 'Poly and civfanatics. However, Sun Tzu can make a beneficial difference if you map its concepts to the game situations, and discern whether they are valid in that context.

- bvc

	28-01-2004 00:44									#9
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Most of Sun Szu is simple common sense, just worded very clearly, there are a few good points, the one about not raising an army twice for the same task, and it the wisdom in the tactical advance to the rear.

Other chapters such as the one about elevation (attack downhill etc.) and deployment have no real application in civ.

	28-01-2004 10:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot I agree with the Professor.

nice to be respected............

	28-01-2004 13:35									#11
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some of it is helpful, like the subjects about alliances - attacking at your enemies alliances, distancing your enemy from his allies, etc, however, in my opinion, a lot of it is not because it has a lot to do with tactical strategy, which isn't that imporatant in civ 3. Sure, there's a little bit like attacking where your enemy is weak, moving like a flowing river, but a lot of it you just can't do in civ 3, like feigning weakness while being strong, or vice versa, attacking your enemies supply lines, and the essay on each type of general. I don't think that the essay on each type of terrain, or ground, is directly applicable either, but it should be noted that there are certain types of terrain you want to avoid attacking your enemy on, like when he's parked on top of some mountains!

detton
=?

	02-02-2004 05:04									#12
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quote: Originally posted by needle Everything I know about war I learned from the Discovery Channel and "Dad's Army" Oh and reading "King Solomon's Mines" when I was 11.

*Diety player alert. Diety player alert.*
*Witness their casual nature, as they give the secrets of civ away*

	02-02-2004 18:53									#13
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I've not read Sun Tzu, but I have read the Epic of Gilgamesh. A shame they made Gilgamesh "generic bloke with beard" instead a mighty warrior with streaming hair, two-thirds god and one-third man, but there you go. I always change his title to "Demigod", which makes things a bit more interesting.

	02-02-2004 19:30									#14
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You're playing against a computer! It has never read a book on military strategy. All that matters is studying the game and applying a bit of reasoned thought.

Playing against humans is a different situation. Unlike a computer plodding through its programmed routines, humans can be influenced in more subtle ways. If you want to win against people I would suggest "A book of five rings". Just don't expect to understand it on the first (or even tenth) reading.

	03-02-2004 10:34									#15
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Perhaps the art of war only applies to multiplayer?

I've never read it and don't play multiplayer so I have no idea

	03-02-2004 17:06									#16
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I was going to say that Sun Tzu would apply more to games like Empire Earth, but EE is mostly just "build a lot of units and pound the sh*t out of your enemies."

Maybe SZ's teachings can be applied to games like Close Combat.