25-01-2004 06:44									#1
	PC player produces more on same squares Support Apolyton

Question - I've just gained the ability to spy (doing upgrades to infantry time ) and have noticed the computer opponents are producing way more food, etc. than I can with my cities. How come they can get food from mountains? why when the seas around my cities all show one picture of a grain stack do ny opponents sea squares show 2!
I even had a game where the computer player had a city (pop-6) surrounded by mountains and after I took it I could only get the pop up to 2!

unable to play game anymore b/c it is so hopeless with that type of copmpetition,
dbg

	25-01-2004 06:57									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Where they Mayans or one of the other Ag civs? That trait give extra food. The other possibleitiy is the form of government. If you are in say depotism you have a food penalty on most tiles.
Hills produce 1 food and 1 shields and 0 commerce until eother roaded (extra commerce or mined extra shield).
The other things are being in a GA (golden age). Anyway the game does not have any cheats in terms of terrain.

	25-01-2004 07:00									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

If you are having problems beating the game, go to the Strategy thread and read the must read threads, it is topped (stuck at the top).
If that is not helping, go to the General forum and start a new thread like this. Post a 4000bc start and one after about 40 turns and I will look at it and see what is going. I am sure many others will jump in and offer advice as well. Good luck.

	25-01-2004 11:09									#4
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communism in golden age? hmmm, possibly, but most all my PC opponents seem to be doing this. Thanks.
for future reference, how would I post a game start or 40 turns in for that matter?am I somehow allowed to make a file in my CIV games saved folder an attachment?
-dbg

	25-01-2004 11:24									#5
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by dgrimes communism in golden age? hmmm, possibly, but most all my PC opponents seem to be doing this. Thanks. for future reference, how would I post a game start or 40 turns in for that matter?am I somehow allowed to make a file in my CIV games saved folder an attachment? -dbg

When you start a new game save it before you even build the city or move any units. That is the year 4000bc in a standard game.

Somewhere around 2150BC it will be 40 turns into the game. Save at some turn in this time frame.

You can use the post a reply as oppossed to the quick reply. Then below the window you type your text into you will see a browse button. This is where you browse your files to find the save game and it will be attaxhed when you submit the reply. It must be less than 500K, but it will be that early in the game.

I would list the parameters for the game such as the level, map size and number of civs.

	25-01-2004 11:28									#6
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Attach your current game if it shows the situation you discribe.
If they were Ag civs the city square produce one additional food for the city center tile. If they irrigate a desert tile they get an extra food for that tile compared to other races.

	25-01-2004 11:33									#7
	Re: PC player produces more on same squares Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by dgrimes Question - I've just gained the ability to spy (doing upgrades to infantry time ) and have noticed the computer opponents are producing way more food, etc. than I can with my cities. How come they can get food from mountains? why when the seas around my cities all show one picture of a grain stack do ny opponents sea squares show 2! I even had a game where the computer player had a city (pop-6) surrounded by mountains and after I took it I could only get the pop up to 2! unable to play game anymore b/c it is so hopeless with that type of copmpetition, dbg

So as I said hills do produce one food, IF youhave a citizen on that tile. Mountains oproduce no food. In other words, if no one works the tile, you get nothing from it. So if you capture a city with 6 pop and they are resisting, the city produces nothing.
If you move citizens to entertainers to appease the unhappiness, they are not working tiles.

	25-01-2004 11:34									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

City view:

City center plus 6 citizens on tiles. 5 yielding food and one shields and commerce only.
Hills ith no citizen yield nothing. Ignore this is you already realize that connection.

Attachment: city.jpg
This has been downloaded 33 time(s).

Last edited by vmxa1 on 25-01-2004 at 11:56

	25-01-2004 11:42									#9
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Oh, one other thing that could be occurring. They could be adding pop by having workers or settlers join the city. If you have nothing but hills, not mountains, you can only get 1 food for each of the 6 pop and 2 or 3 or even 4 from the city center depending on the tile and the traits. So at best that is 10F and you need 12 to support pop 6. So in that case some starvation will occur.
They would need at least one tile of 3F or 2 that did 2F to get to 12 with a 4F center.
Otherwise the city will shrink.

	25-01-2004 22:20									#10
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BTW I did not mention railroads as they will work the same for you as for them.

	26-01-2004 04:11									#11
	Re: PC player produces more on same squares Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by dgrimes Question - I've just gained the ability to spy (doing upgrades to infantry time ) and have noticed the computer opponents are producing way more food, etc. than I can with my cities. How come they can get food from mountains? why when the seas around my cities all show one picture of a grain stack do ny opponents sea squares show 2! I even had a game where the computer player had a city (pop-6) surrounded by mountains and after I took it I could only get the pop up to 2! unable to play game anymore b/c it is so hopeless with that type of copmpetition, dbg

Because the civ you are looking at is an Agricultural civ. They get more food than any other and can also get food where no one else can. Like Mountains.

	26-01-2004 07:30									#12
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No one gets food on a mountain, only a hill.

	26-01-2004 22:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 No one gets food on a mountain, only a hill.

I think Agricultural civs can. At least that's what I've read somewhere. I don't know for sure though.

	27-01-2004 02:46									#14
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I out one on the mountain so you can see. This is Mayan:

Attachment: mount.jpg
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

	27-01-2004 02:47									#15
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Mountains get no food in epic games that are standard rules, hills do though.