26-01-2004 17:07									#1
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Hi, has anyone tried to increase speed of the game by lowering costs of production and increasing rate of the population growth and research? In multiplayer games pbem each turn may last quite long, so speeding up a game might reduce number of "empty" turns, where really nothing is happening, and time for building units and facilities may be sometimes very very long. I'm trying presently to modify game rules this way and i'm wondering if someone already has tried that

	30-01-2004 06:51									#2
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Hi, has anyone tried to increase speed of the game by lowering costs of production and increasing rate of the population growth and research? In multiplayer games pbem each turn may last quite long, so speeding up a game might reduce number of "empty" turns, where really nothing is happening, and time for building units and facilities may be sometimes very very long. I'm trying presently to modify game rules this way and i'm wondering if someone already has tried that

Hi Mart.

Try the 'Marssurvivors v 3.0' on Maniac's link (easily found now you're a CyCon ). It's a map/scenario I made some years ago. If I remember correctly I reduced Growth/Production to 7/8 instead of 10/10

	03-02-2004 09:16									#3
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Thank you for pointing this example. I have seen the Mars Scenario, and love it. It's like having completely new feeling of the game.

	03-02-2004 20:36									#4
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Thank you for pointing this example. I have seen the Mars Scenario, and love it. It's like having completely new feeling of the game.

Glad you liked it.

	03-02-2004 21:57									#5
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And were you fooled by the Nano Factory?

Anyway, one problem with the scenario is that eco-damage doesn't matter, making crawlers over-powerful. You can build them without any limtation. I've been thinking for a long time already to rework the scenario and replace worms with "ecoteurs", but I have never found the time to do so.

Btw, how about playing a multiplayer game with the Mars Survivors scenario? Could be interesting, and a change from the same old game.

	04-02-2004 00:23									#6
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we can play the Mars scenario, who else would join?
There is only one concern - some important files in the main SMAC directory would have to be replaced - that would affect other games using standard file versions - any ideas how to overcome it?

	04-02-2004 00:49									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, how about playing a multiplayer game with the Mars Survivors scenario? Could be interesting, and a change from the same old game.

Count me in!!!!
I always wanted to see how it works in a MP game.

And about those crawlers, well, it is not something I builded at large in a game. And having ecoteurs (mw) in the scenario would mean 'native life' flag in action. The Rebels were supposed to be the ecoteurs with their 'bombard' ability. Perhaps making crawlers more expensive could be an idea, but in a MP game, when most players are human, I suppose all would build a lot of crawlers, eliminating the effect then.

	04-02-2004 00:52									#8
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 we can play the Mars scenario, who else would join? There is only one concern - some important files in the main SMAC directory would have to be replaced - that would affect other games using standard file versions - any ideas how to overcome it?

I'm not to certain about that files needs to be replaced.
I thought once a scenario was made, it works from the files in the scenario folder. But the factions will need to be placed in the root. Perhaps, again, perhaps, the alphax.txt file as well, but that one is easily replaced.
I'll have to check what files were adapted.

	04-02-2004 01:37									#9
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We have 3 players now? how many would be optimal?

	04-02-2004 02:00									#10
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The only files that need to be placed in the main SMAC directory and would overwrite original files are a few graphic pcx files. But those aren't strictly necessary to play the scenario. As GeoModder says, all the necessary files can remain in the scenario folder.

	05-02-2004 08:28									#11
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 We have 3 players now? how many would be optimal?

Optimal, I would say, are 4 human players. There are 6 playable faction and 1 hidden 'rebel' faction I created for sabotaging and menacing the others.
But from those 6, the revamped Cyborgs are barely playable (or you have to be reeeaaal good) because I forced the Peacekeepers as constant enemy. Also, the Peacekeepers have the best spot on Mars in combination with most population. So in my opinion Peace is disqualified for a human player for to much benefit. If some player wants to give the Cyborgs a try, feel free, but I won't recommend it.

But hey, if it's getting crowded here, I'll take them

	05-02-2004 09:33									#12
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Peacekeepers? - United Culture? Chief Secretary Bailey?
We need to wait for fourth player then

	05-02-2004 10:05									#13
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Peacekeepers? - United Culture? Chief Secretary Bailey? We need to wait for fourth player then

Yes, that's the faction I meant. Still used to the former name

But if in a reasonable time no 4th player comes, just let us start then. Since I'm the creator, I'll take the faction that is left

	05-02-2004 10:46									#14
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I may play United Workers

	05-02-2004 12:15									#15
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 I may play United Workers

Good choice

	05-02-2004 14:45									#16
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If its a SMAC game Id like to join too!
I hve not downloaded the file yet,but will do it in short time

	05-02-2004 16:14									#17
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin If its a SMAC game Id like to join too! I hve not downloaded the file yet,but will do it in short time

It's a SMACX based scenario, but without native life and only the Unity wreckage on it. It plays on Mars, 32x64 size, all land. As dry as I could make it, so extensive terraforming is needed. Shorter and a bit adapted tech tree. And it's 200 - 250 turns long, depending on the difficulty level.

	06-02-2004 21:22									#18
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Sounds like an interesting scenario. I'll have to give it a try as soon as I fire up SMAC again.

Been too long since I played SMAC. Going on 2 years.

	07-02-2004 01:55									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac The only files that need to be placed in the main SMAC directory and would overwrite original files are a few graphic pcx files. But those aren't strictly necessary to play the scenario. As GeoModder says, all the necessary files can remain in the scenario folder. (underling added)

It seems that there is a shortage of definitive information as to what files need to be where - and when they need to be there, in order to create a game that incorporates the desired modifications.

quote: from the file: Scenario.txt ; Many game text files (e.g. ALPHA.TXT, SCRIPT.TXT, etc), as well ; as art files (UNITS.PCX, etc) can be copied into the scenario ; directory and modified; files in the scenario directory automatically ; override files in the main game directory.

First, while there is a lot of stuff that can get incorporated into the game file, including some of the stuff in the Alpha(x).txt and the faction.txt files do not seem to need being replicated on any other player's machine, and there are a lot of things, including most of the Alpha(x).txt file, that AFAIK, need to be present in the AC directory of the other players if they are to take effect, that above excerpt from Scenario.txt notwithstanding. AFAIK, there is no way to incorporate some changes into the game except for everyone playing the game to have those changes present in their AC diorectories.
Examples of the kind of thing that do not seem to be incorporable into game files are the various individual settings in the #RULES section and the settings in the #CHASSIS sections. Examples of things that do seem to be capable of being incorporated into the game file are the contents of the #UNITS section of Alpha(x).txt and some information from the faction.txt files (at least the major information at the beginning - I don't think that the #DATALINK1 & 2 info is bound into the game and I'm not sure about the other stuff).

Second, as far as exactly how the incorporable stuff gets incorporated into the game file, there may be more than one approach that works. I know of one way: that the scenario creator loads the changes into their AC directory .txt files and then runs the game to create the scenario. It is quite possible there are additional ways, but I am not sure of the details; given the testimonials by Maniac and GeoModder, it could be possible, that at least in some circumstances, incorporable information that is present in .txt files in the Scenario subdirectory where the .scn file is located when a game is initialized from that scenario.

Third, it is possible that in this regard as in others, different behavior may occur between games for the SP and PBEM environments and/or between ScenarioEditor and non-ScenEditor generated games.

	07-02-2004 03:00									#20
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So who is going to play the scenario then? Should we start a separate call for game in pbem section?

Present standing:

Maniac
Geomodder
Mart7x5--------- United Workers
Sovereign
........

United Cultures are forced AI (for too much power)
Rebels are forced AI
Cyborgs are weak and should be last choice

	07-02-2004 03:05									#21
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller Second, as far as exactly how the incorporable stuff gets incorporated into the game file, there may be more than one approach that works.....

I noticed that too, when i was creating a scenario i had problems with new predesigned units - they were available only from alphax.txt in root directory - not from scenario dir - and i do not know why.

	07-02-2004 16:11									#22
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It looks like their are enough players now.
I asked Maniac (since he is a more experienced MP) to draft a list of bugs, so we can decide which is allowed and which not.

As for the uncertainty of what files are needed in the root dir:
If everyone has sufficient space on his computer, make a new install of SMACX and put the marsscenario files which you find in the folder 'Mars' in the root. Since I tampered with a lot of txt and pcx files (to give it a martian accent, not a chiron one) that feels to me the best solution. If you make a minimum install it won't take that much hard drive space.

In case another player is interested, I or Maniac are willing to risk the ArtInt (Cyborg alike) faction.

I'll prepare a draft from the SE of the factions in case that's necessary?

	07-02-2004 21:01									#23
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Sovereign:

quote: Sounds like an interesting scenario. I'll have to give it a try as soon as I fire up SMAC again.

Does this mean you want to participate in a multiplayer Mars game, or do you want to play it single player?

johndmuller:

quote: It seems that there is a shortage of definitive information as to what files need to be where - and when they need to be there, in order to create a game that incorporates the desired modifications.

In any case, with me the scenario works completely as intended when following these instructions:

quote: - the Mars-folder and all of its contents under the folder 'scenarios'. - the 'Mars.mp' file in the folder 'maps'. It is an extra if you ever want to play on a dry map of the planet. - Create a "techs" folder under the Mars scenario folder. Put 'tech087.pcx' in it. - Create a "voices" folder under the Mars scenario folder. Put the files 'tech87.mp3', 'Unionist.mp3', 'Survival.mp3', 'Nippons.mp3', 'MarsGov.mp3', 'Convict.mp3' and 'ArtInt.mp3' in it. - Create a "projs" folder under the Mars scenario folder. Put the files 'proj004.pcx', 'proj031.pcx' and 'proj032.pcx' in it. - All the remaining files in the "Factionfiles" subdirectory should go into the main Alpha Centauri directory. No original files will be overwritten, so there's no danger.

IIRC some two years ago GeoModder and I also shortly played the scenario multiplayer with a direct connection, and it worked. But never with PBEM. I guess the only way to find out for sure is give it a try.
Are you interested in participating in this game, johndmuller?

***

Btw, due to Rubin's tips in this thread, I was able to fix the problem which caused the game to crash when having a look at the "Anti-ballistic Defense System" in the F1 Datalinks. This edited helpx.txt file eliminates the problem:
http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Maniac/helpx.txt

quote: I asked Maniac (since he is a more experienced MP) to draft a list of bugs

I'd propose these as the rules concerning game bugs, features and exploits:

• Total freedom in Design Workshop (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field)
  
• Crawlers Upgrade anytime - OK (see Design Workshop, earlier)
  
• Retro-engineering - OK, except for using the probe rover chassis before discovering Doc. Mobility
  
• SE switches "quickies" forbidden - (obviously you can experiment to see what effect various SE choices have, but cannot change, play moves, then change back in the same turn)
  
• Stockpiling in Build Queues anytime - OK
  
• Multiple drops or orbital insertions using the right-click menu is forbidden. So is airdropping from outside a base/airbase, or after having moved (except on a magtube) using the same method.
  
• Base growth through Colony Pods - can be used to increase a base size up to the applicable pre-facility limit, but cannot be used to breach that limit without the facility being built.
  
• Psi units cannot be assigned multiple waypoint patrol routes (to avoid instant demon boil bug)
  
• It is not allowed to set the home base (Control-h) for a unit to be the base of another faction when the diplomatic stance is pact. The unit will then require no support from either faction.
  
• No base trading with the AI. Extortion and gifting is allowed.
  
• It is not allowed to trade technology to AIs in exchange for tech if as a result the AI's energy reserves would go into the negative.
  
• Cannot change an infiltrated faction's workers to specialists, for example by using the F4 screen (or the bases icon of the F2 screen)
  
• Transparent Commlink Logs - It is forbidden for any player, whether playing the turn or just browsing the .sav, to open a .sav file (current or past) with a text reader program (eg word, wordperfect, notepad, etc etc) as the in-game commlink exchanges are embedded in text in the .sav file and can be read by anyone.
  
• It is forbidded for any player, whether playing the turn or just browsing any gamesave, to select left hand menu, then Game, then Resign. If hit accidentally, then immdeiately select the No! Get back in there and fight option. Selecting the yes, time to slink away in shame option triggers the game end scores and map expansion from the start (thereby revealing the start locations and limits of expansion of all seven factions).
  
• Communications - none till contact, obtain commlink, or build Council Network Probe
  
• Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)
  
• If an aggressive probe action (anything except infiltration) is used on a faction you have a truce, treaty or pact with, you must select 'Declare Vendetta' in the dialog box that appears afterwards, and notify the victim of your transgression, unless you have received permission in advance. No notification is required in other cases.
  
• Demanding withdrawal to a human player through the menus rather than by negotiation is prohibited
  
• Bribing (or accepting bribes) for votes through the diplomatic channel box by clicking on the human faction leader's picture is prohibited (must be conducted by diplo message or e-mail)
  
• Multiple reloading of the game to try for different effects is forbidden. If a reload is necessary because of a game crash etc., an explanation should be posted to the turn administration thread.
  
• This bug is not allowed: Normally, a base must have an Aerospace Complex to be able to build orbital facilities. However, if an Aerospace Complex is the item currently being built, then orbital facilities can be added to the build queue. If production is switched to something other than the Aerospace Complex, the orbital facilities remain in the build queue and will be built without the need for an Aerospace Complex.
  
• This bug is not allowed: On the turn a terraformer completes its terraforming task, its "flag" will be grayed out indicating that it has moved. Clicking on and activating the terraformer will allow a new terraforming command to be issued to the terraformer with the correct number of turns to completion displayed. Clicking on and activating the terraformer again, cancelling its new orders; at this point, the terraformer will have regained one movement point.

I don't know if the last bug really works, but I found it on CGN, here, so I included it on the list.

quote: So who is going to play the scenario then? Should we start a separate call for game in pbem section?

Would be a good idea if we don't find enough players.
I could play the Anarchists btw. They're my least favourite faction to play in this scenario, but since I assume I have more experience with this scenario and multiplayer in general, I guess it would be good to give myself a handicap.

Last edited by Maniac on 08-02-2004 at 05:22