15-08-2000 20:10									#1
	Early Hanging Gardens Get a bigger avatar today!

Against human players, what is a good time to complete the Hanging Gardens? I've seen people go for it very quickly and I usually find that my first item or research is pottery to get this. It makes ICSing much easier and also makes it harder for your opponents. I'd like to hear from some more experienced players what is a good year to get it (deity, raging of course) Or even if one should go for it at all.

	15-08-2000 20:36									#2
	Got spare money?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Caesar on 08-15-2000 11:10 AM</font>
Against human players, what is a good time to complete the Hanging Gardens?
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As early as possible, else it's adios HG!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Caesar on 08-15-2000 11:10 AM</font>
I've seen people go for it very quickly and I usually find that my first item or research is pottery to get this.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I try to get Bronze before Pottery so I can go for Trade and build four caravans. I used to skip the Trade route and disbanded diplos instead. Don't know which is best.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Caesar on 08-15-2000 11:10 AM</font>
I'd like to hear from some more experienced players what is a good year to get it (deity, raging of course) Or even if one should go for it at all.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Definitely worth going after and, again, ASAP!

Carolus

	15-08-2000 20:57									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Again, it depends on the game.
I've seen Xin Yu crank it out by 2750. But in other games it has languished out there until almost 500. If you think you can win the race to MC you can pass it up.
I've been spending my last few game racing to invention so I have ignored it.

It depends on the game and what your strategy is and how you have to respond to the other players strategy.

In one game when i got philosphy no one had built it yet. So i took a chance and chose pottery as the freebie. It was white, so I rushed built hg and ignored the poly, mono route and rushed for democracy.

It's a poker game. You have to read the other players.

I know this didn't really help, but there are no hard and fast rules.

RAH

	16-08-2000 09:49									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

2750 is pretty fast, with a good position I can get 2400... I hope I can get MGE again so I can start playing Civ again...

	16-08-2000 04:49									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I stopped racing HG long time ago because I wanted to concentrate on some other things while others compete about the same goal.
Now when all of my regular opponents knows that I almost never build them,they aren't so quick on HG anymore which can be bad if they grab some of my favorite wonders,plus HG later because on my tech tree pottery comes very late.

	16-08-2000 05:51									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I, like Smart Fart, hardly build Hanging Gardens anymore. It seems like everyone else is always faster at it so I have just given up and try to get to Mike's asap! hehe

	16-08-2000 06:00									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My biggest problem is that usually I basically play ICS, ICS and when I can't play ICS anymore, I play ICS. I guess I could modify my strategy, but it seems that ICS is the most effective. Maybe I'll work on something new...

	16-08-2000 06:15									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Having gotten tired of watching Markus et al zoom ahead in pop. and science, I have lately resorted to going the HG and republic (wltpd)
route - got to admit, its funner that way than slugging thru the tech tree in monarchy. But thats playing at 2x production, I hate republic at 1x prod. MC is imo the best wonder, but so many games dont last beyond railroad so HG is extremely important.

	16-08-2000 06:25									#9
	Put an end to popups!

A fast 2x build would be around 3000-2500BC.I 've seen it at 3200 once.That was real fast.
Amazing what 2 peat and a 200 gold hut can accomplish.

A fast 1x build would be 2500-2000BC.
In order to do this you most likely will have your cap start a wonder right after 2 or 3 warriors.

This would be at deity level.

	26-08-2000 07:58									#10
	Suffering from ads?

I rarely go for HG anymore either. While its a great wonder for icsing, even it has its limitations. Besides if your playing great players, there are better wonders to go after. Its funny how wonders have changed as far as importance goes over the years. Remember when many couldn't believe in not building the great library? Personally, i dont' think the happy wonders really make a difference in the game as long as one person doesn't take them all. I will take collosus over HG anyday, and i will take sun Tzu's over Mikes as well, but thats just me.

------------------
War4ever and i am back with a vengence.
Time for a little EthnicCleansing

	26-08-2000 08:47									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

HC, but if one person does take them all

Actually Miches is VERY important when ICSing, HG better with double production, slightly less effective with single. I usually go after HG fast, if not I'll go for GW if its a small map. Nothing beats vet pikemen on mountains w/ GW, double production, no bribing cities