31-01-2004 03:35									#121
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Anyway, Bodds.. I found one of your videos on Amazon.

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	31-01-2004 07:26									#122
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quote: Still won though didn't he.

Only with the aid of the Scottish MPs though. West Lothian thread anyone ?

	31-01-2004 15:48									#123
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quote: Only with the aid of the Scottish MPs though.

British MPs.

	31-01-2004 15:56									#124
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Hmm, I would've thought you'd be first to complain about the Scots having the deciding votes on a bill which will only affect England and Wales...

On Hutton, there was a letter in todays Independent that caught my eye. It said (paraphrased as i haven't got my paper around):

quote: If you accept the Hutton report, you have to accept that we are not led by manipulative liar but rather by a credulous fool.

I don't know what's worse...

	31-01-2004 15:58									#125
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An incredulous fool for trusting his intelligence services?

That must make every single prime minister and American president incredulous fools then.

It's amazing how the Blair-bashers still can't apologise for the lies they have been spreading about him.

	31-01-2004 16:03									#126
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A credulous fool for trusting a single source enough to go to war. There was no true weight of evidence if you look deep enough.

If Bush and Blair had just said that they wanted to get rid of Saddam for being an oppressive tyrant there wouldn't have been half as much trouble as claiming that he formed clear and immediate danger to British and American interests and lives.

I still don't want Blair to go necessarily, but heads should roll in the intelligence services both here and the US (where it seem Tenet is about to be sacrificed).

	31-01-2004 16:05									#127
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Whitewash.

Hutto was appointed by Blairs old friend Lord falconer.

Give me another.

	31-01-2004 17:07									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Well in those days they came to stay and executed thousands who might get in their way. It deserved the name conquest more.

Now they wipe out the population beforehand by using food sanctions, uranium depleted ammunition, bombing water cleansing facilities and so on. Then they move in and install a friendly man (Chalabi I spit on you), which they can control and who will privatize the whole enterprize.

Naturally this is much more cost effective than in days of yore. Low overhead costs and so forth.

	31-01-2004 18:13									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Whitewash. Hutto was appointed by Blairs old friend Lord falconer. Give me another.

OK. How does that amount to a whitewash? I'm asking that in complete confidence that you aren't going to be able to back it up.

	31-01-2004 20:30									#130
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I think the whitewash part consists in them ignoring the testimony about the government changing aspects of the report (as shown in the transcripts) to make Iraq look like an iminent danger, rather than a potential one.

	31-01-2004 22:05									#131
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I think the whitewash part consists in them ignoring the testimony about the government changing aspects of the report (as shown in the transcripts) to make Iraq look like an iminent danger, rather than a potential one.

You have to look into the detail of the report. Hutton does go into the process by which the report was changed. He concludes that No 10 asked for changes in presentation but that they did not insist on anything the intelligence people were not willing to accept. It is a fine point and probably the bit that is being criticised for the government getting the benefit of the doubt but on a strict interpretation, which is what Hutton took, the Government and the Downing Street press office did not do what they were accused of. They did ask for it to be presented in a favourable light. They did not insert or change material directly.

The BBC did clearly not properly check whether Gilligan had the material to back up his initial claims. No doubt about a management failure. If they had just asked a few hard questions they might well not have been subject to criticism, indeed if they had reached the conclusion Hutton did regarding the reliability and interpretation of Gilligan's material they could have avoided a row with the Government rather than leaping to defend Gilligan's broadcast and the whole situation would have been different.

	31-01-2004 23:11									#132
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It's funny..I've never really known "whitewash" to be that extensively used as a word - it has no connotations for me except when a football team hammers another one...

	01-02-2004 06:54									#133
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George Galloway i thought summed it up quite well...we're either led by knaves or incompetent fools.

	01-02-2004 07:25									#134
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The BBC needs to get some balls and tell the government to f*ck off. I don't want the BBC turning into a propaganda service for the British government. It is one of the few news services I can trust.

GO BBC!!!

	01-02-2004 07:29									#135
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quote: The BBC needs to get some balls and tell the government to f*ck off

Trouble is they tried that and lost. Also with Charter renewal coming up its difficult. Go for broke and tell the government where to go and risk being broken up or toe the line for a while to safeguard your future ?

	01-02-2004 07:50									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Standup Trouble is they tried that and lost. Also with Charter renewal coming up its difficult. Go for broke and tell the government where to go and risk being broken up or toe the line for a while to safeguard your future ?

Messing with the BBC would be political suicide, brits love the BBC and the Blair government doesn't want to tick people off even more than they already are.

	02-02-2004 04:15									#137
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"George Galloway i thought summed it up quite well...we're either led by knaves or incompetent fools."

We're led by fellow human beings. Humans, with the exception of Galloway, do make mistakes.

And are you taking this idiot seriously?

	02-02-2004 07:33									#138
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What the BBC did to Blair is akin to what the leftist media and politicos are doing to Bush, falsely accusing him of lying about Iraq's WMD -- except, in the United States we do not have a commission to expose the perversity of the American left. We leave that to the likes of David Kay, an honest man whose honesty demonstrates just how dishonest the left is.

	02-02-2004 13:23									#139
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Ned, what WMD's?

	02-02-2004 14:53									#140
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chegitz

Lord Hutton sets out the story of the changes to the dossier fully. But he concludes that the changes which No 10 asked for were changes in tone not substance. Moreover he points out that the committee of intelligence people who were responsible for the dossier accepted some of the suggested textural changes and rejected others; they rmained responsible for the final document and such of No.10's suggestions as they adopted they told him in evidence they were entirely content with.

Hutton says of the "sexed up" phrase that it can perfectly well mean simply that the language was altered to make it more pointed - which Hutton says it certainly was (because of the suggested textural changes) or it can mean that the dossier finished up containing material which the government knew or suspected was false. Which is how the term was in fact interpreted. Hutton rejects this later allegation and it is, in part, because the BBC was willing for the allegations which were made to be made off the back of such imprecise language that he criticises their approach.

It is a serious matter to impugn honour, he says, and it behoves those who edit and manage television programmes to subject the language used when that is done to careful scrutiny.

	02-02-2004 16:40									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Good luck with substantiating any part of that, and report your English teacher to the authorities.

I was born with than damage speech center which effect speech and writen language abilities. If you look at record Blair support Clinton and Bush polcy's no matter what. I will be 54 year old this year.

You wherenot born when Wategate happen when Nixon whitehouse operative broke into the Demoncrate National Headquater. Alot of policeman support Nixon untril the Wategate tapes where released showing him ordering the breaking in an other illegal acts includeing destory evidents ordering people to perjury thenself when that came out he lost the police and Mafic support he have.

	02-02-2004 17:00									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Ned What the BBC did to Blair is akin to what the leftist media and politicos are doing to Bush, falsely accusing him of lying about Iraq's WMD -- except, in the United States we do not have a commission to expose the perversity of the American left. We leave that to the likes of David Kay, an honest man whose honesty demonstrates just how dishonest the left is.

I than trie of people saying that there is than leftly bias in the media. Almost ever america except for the die hard neocom and other far rightwinger consider Bush than worst perjury than Bill Clinton for lieing about the WMD and regime change shouldnot be untaken by our government to get rid of government we donot like.

My own Intelligence service told me Iraq got rid of their WMD along time ago and they told me this before Bush illegal war. Almost ever america consider Bush than illegimate president because the Suprume Court make me president against our Constitution.