04-02-2004 04:49									#31
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Some good ideas, Garth.

I liked the combat and mini ideas in MOO2.

Mini makes a lot of sense. When you make advances in tech, like in real world.... things get smaller.

Prime examples:

computers
guns
electronics
engines
etc.


keep ideas coming!

	04-02-2004 07:35									#32
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antarean attacks taper off a certain turn. i forget exactly, iirc 250-300, with almost none after 400.

if you want to capture them, the best way is with death rays, neutron beams, and troop transporters, but getting all that by turn 200-250 is not easy.

re-colonizing: a trick to use if you want to increase the suffering of a certain race and build fame points is to surrender your own planet to them, and then immediately take it back on the next turn almost intact. the best way is obviously with telepathy, but you can also do it by not building any ground unit buildings and sendnig in troops.

	04-02-2004 08:52									#33
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No bogus captures in scoring runs please.

	04-02-2004 08:53									#34
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I would also not allow blowing up their planets to AP them for better ones.

	04-02-2004 10:22									#35
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I much rather MoO 4 to be similar to the original than MoO 2. As somebody put it, the micromanagement reaches a plateau instread of keeps increasing.

	04-02-2004 18:26									#36
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IMO all MoO2 needed to reduce micromanagement to tolerable levels was allowing the player to save build queues and when a new item is researched, say deep core mine, you could have a menu where you could just select on a list on which planets it should go into the queue.
Most of the mm in MoO2 is queuing up buildings on colonized and conquered planets and when you have lots of planets and you research one of those "must build" technologies.
But maybe that's just me.

	04-02-2004 20:23									#37
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Iasius, I completely agree. I first saw such management in an online game called Ferion, and later in Galciv. It's a very powerful tool for macromanagement and eliminates the tedious part of the game ...

	04-02-2004 21:35									#38
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Stars had method that allowed you to design a build queue as a template. It could be designated as the default for all new planets. You could alter it any time or alter any planets queue anytime.
You could use something like mine 20 factories 20 def 1 to keep a slow build up in mature planets. Saved a lot of hassle.

	04-02-2004 22:21									#39
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The other mm task from Moo2 was managing your workers. I always hated that if a planet had a surplus of food and your empire had a surplus of food a new citizen would often be created as a farmer giving me a huge excess of food.

	05-02-2004 03:34									#40
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Excellent ideas, people!

I remember CTP's build queries. You could save an entire query, build EVERY building and structure in a city, then save THAT query. Start a new game, you can load up that query for every city.

Presto, no micromanagement.

	05-02-2004 05:49									#41
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I think that was CPT2, but it has been a long time.

	05-02-2004 16:17									#42
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Actually both CTP and CTP2 have it

	05-02-2004 21:35									#43
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I just can't remember much about CTP. I played both games once and I remember the pulic works from II and that is about it.
I do remember the build queue in II.

	05-02-2004 21:37									#44
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Both had it and I still love it SO much easier..........But it was to good, so other's didn't use. Would have made users life to easy...no chance.......

	06-02-2004 04:40									#45
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quote: "when a new item is researched, say deep core mine, you could have a menu where you could just select on a list on which planets it should go into the queue."

You hit the nail on the head so hard it started bleeding.

And introducing a "queue template" or a way of doing exactly what you said above is rather "easy"... Ironic isn't it?

	06-02-2004 11:25									#46
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That's not the only thing.

I do not understand why all of a sudden I could only build one missile base, say, for a planet.

	06-02-2004 12:23									#47
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Hey you can build more in Moo3, if you care. Of course it is painful to get to that point.

	06-02-2004 20:31									#48
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Vxma, I can't build more than 1 Fighter Base, Missile Base, or Beam Base in either MOO2 or MOO3.

Back to topic....

I think CTP's query model will help reduce the huge micromanagement of big empires, reducing the tedium a lot in middle and late games.

"easy"? Sure, it makes it easier to have good and fun games, focusing more on other stuff than clickfests building queries in every city or planet or colony if you have 100+ in your empire.

	06-02-2004 20:44									#49
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The main reasons why I like it:

1.) You can concentrate on the real stuff
2.) You make sure you don't forget anything

But again, might have been to easy and they were afraid, it will shorten to much the game..............

	06-02-2004 22:19									#50
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I thought you could have multiple orbitals in Moo3?

	07-02-2004 02:06									#51
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Gilgamesh, the players won't mind.

They'll have MUCH more time for "next turn" and can play more games, more variety, etc.

Then the developers can include other stuff to lengthen the game if needed.


VXMA, space orbitals yea.... I was talking about Planetary bases. I never am able to build more than 1 Planetary Missile, Fighter, or Beam base in either MOO2 or MOO3. They only let me build 1 each per planet.

But I remember reading the boards a long time ago and someone said there was a "bug" or something that your planetary missile base would destroy ALL enemy ships in MOO2? 100 missile bases?

Could someone clarify that for me please? Thanks!

	07-02-2004 02:31									#52
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MB in Moo2 are good before ships get good engines and armor.
After Zort, they will probably be ineffective on their own.
If you have Battlestation and fighter garrison and MB, then it will hold off mid gme ships in small numbers.

Moo1 would allow yo to have as many bases as you could afford. They were very effective, until ship speeds get above 5.
It all depends on your number of basses and their number and types of ships. They are basically effective the whole game.

Yes, I know that teleporters and such can let them get on you and bust the bases with N-bombs or Plamsa Torps. That should not be allowed and is very late in the game.

	09-02-2004 13:59									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Sovereign Gilgamesh, the players won't mind. They'll have MUCH more time for "next turn" and can play more games, more variety, etc. Then the developers can include other stuff to lengthen the game if needed. ............ But I remember reading the boards a long time ago and someone said there was a "bug" or something that your planetary missile base would destroy ALL enemy ships in MOO2? 100 missile bases? Could someone clarify that for me please? Thanks!

Hi Sovereign,

Easy one first: Never heard of this kind of bug (and it must have been in MoO not in the second one, you can only have one )

For the build-list:

I have the feeling, what is good and easy get's removed or not being taken over, just to prolong the time of a game.

As players nowadays seems to think (no not all), only a long game is a good game.............

But as you mentioned:

They'll have MUCH more time for "next turn" and can play more games, more variety, etc.

But maybe the producers are afraid:

They will have to MUCH time playing games and getting to quick bored off.........

	09-02-2004 14:00									#54
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Teleporters are fun.

I like to build a huge fleet of small ships with teleporters and big gun to take out the Guardian.

	09-02-2004 22:14									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch As players nowadays seems to think (no not all), only a long game is a good game.............

That's what I don't get. One of the things I like most about Moo and Moo2 is that I can finish a game in a day or two.

	10-02-2004 14:07									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader That's what I don't get. One of the things I like most about Moo and Moo2 is that I can finish a game in a day or two.

Or if you wanted to take the painful way, 4 days

But yes, you are right. It shall be up to the player to 'decide' upon.

	12-02-2004 09:08									#57
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I agree that a "blanket queue" would get rid of 90% of the micromanagement in moo2. However, since every planet is different, you'll want to build certain things sooner or later - for example, on one planet you'll want to build a pollution processor before the Robo Miners, but on another you want to build the robo miners first.

Still... My ideal Moo4 would just be Moo2 with more balance and better macromanagement features.

	12-02-2004 12:09									#58
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I could go for that.