29-01-2004 05:16									#1
	How "Virtuous" is it to be industrious now? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

50% instead of 100%, no Slave bonus, Thats a decent Nerf.

I am curious since so many loved it in PTW.

How many former Industrious lovers have turned haters..or merely dislikers? Or do you still love it? Is it now a 3rd tier trait? I am curious if the Industrious lovers have stayed true to this trait in C3C?

How "Virtuous" is it to be industrious now?

What do the great philosophers here at Apolyton think of it in its current form. Is it still loved?

	29-01-2004 05:23									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I still like "Industrious". Even if it has been nerfed, the ability to build infrastructure faster than other civilizations is still significant.

	29-01-2004 05:32									#3
	Got spare money?

I also hear Forest Clearing now takes 4 turns flat, no industrious bonus now. Haven't noticed this, I'll have to test it to see if this is the case.

	29-01-2004 07:07									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Chops are 4 turns regardless. Industry is hurt, but is still useful. Coupled with another good trait like AG.

You will be happy to have it when railing.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 29-01-2004 at 12:40

	29-01-2004 12:06									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think Industrious is still up there, just not as good as some of the new top contenders (like Agri)

	29-01-2004 16:36									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm still torn between Agri+Ind or Agri+Commerce as the cheesiest builder combo.

Off course, since I switched to Emperor I've fallen in love with Expansionist. Without it goody huts are death traps. Darn, I want 3 traits!

	29-01-2004 20:05									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Agri's strength somewhat depends on if you re-roll to ensure "well watered" starts. With a merely decently watered start, it's still arguably the best trait, but it's not a runaway lead. Since an average start will have decent, but not fantastic, water access, agri should be viewed in that light.

That said, I'm not above the occasional ag restart :-)

If you DO get fantastic water access, then Ind+Ag forms a great synergy, as it helps you shield output keep up with your food output, so you're not spending half the game chasing after your own size.

USC

	29-01-2004 20:45									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I may have missed something (didn't play 1.15), but isn't chopping with industrious 3 turns instead of 4? The turn result after subtracting the bonus is now rounded up and down accordingly instead of only up as it was in Civ3 and PtW.

	29-01-2004 20:57									#9
	Support Apolyton

Yes, an Industious chop takes 3 turns, which is consistent with everything taking 2/3 of the time, rounded up.

I don't think there is any rounding down in worker actions, Sir Ralph.

	29-01-2004 21:29									#10
	Tired of ads?

So does an industrious worker now take 2/3 of the time a non-industrious does? I thought is was 3/4, but that seems to be a wrong assumption.

	29-01-2004 21:56									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm pretty sure it works 150% faster, so it takes 2/3 of the time, yes.

	29-01-2004 22:34									#12
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

150%

	30-01-2004 01:37									#13
	Got spare money?

I had already weaned myself of my Industrious addiction with PtW and I'm glad I did.

That doesn't mean I don't like, just that I'm more apt to play the 'Random' civ that pick an Industrious one every time like when I started. (My biggest suggestion to newbies is don't start with Industrious. Now that seems less of a trap. Yay Firaxis!)

	30-01-2004 01:44									#14
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by ducki I had already weaned myself of my Industrious addiction with PtW and I'm glad I did. That doesn't mean I don't like, just that I'm more apt to play the 'Random' civ that pick an Industrious one every time like when I started. (My biggest suggestion to newbies is don't start with Industrious. Now that seems less of a trap. Yay Firaxis!)

That sounds like me with the religious trait...and then the industrious trait after weaning myself away from always having to have the religious trait.

A random civ is perfectly fine with me now. I like all the traits and feel I can have a decent chance of winning with any civ on emperor level. Now I just need to try demigod and above.

	02-02-2004 02:58									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

In reply to the main question, Industrious is still useful, because the roading is quicker, so you get more commerce, so more science early on. Therefore you don't need so many workers, and you can have a bigger militery in republic and democracy. It helps me on those hard to win emperor games.
I only came to love it on regent, after using Greece for the most part.

Last edited by Krill on 02-02-2004 at 03:06

	02-02-2004 12:29									#16
	Suffering from ads?

Faster mines in Despotism = more military and more granaries. Those 2 turns can make a big difference over time. (Likewise with roads, but commerce isn't nearly as important at that stage.)