29-01-2004 13:39									#61
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quote: I am always perplexed by people who insist homosexuality is a choice. Is heterosexuality a choice for them? Have they sat down and decided if they would like men or women? This would be the reason they believe homosexuality is a choice, right? Because they could choose themselves? If not, where do they get this idea that it's a choice?

Arrrgh.... trying...
I can't think of any 'choice' involved other than someone who thought they were one and through experimentation discovered they were the other... that's not really a 'choice', though. More like self-discovery. As for where they get the idea, take your pick: media, peers, religion, family, etc. None of it based on concrete evidence. What I wonder is how many people who think it's a choice are pro- or anti- gay rights, and how many who think it's pre-determined the same.

	29-01-2004 13:41									#62
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Just let it go, Theben. Let's take our fun conversation somewhere else and let this thread drop off the front page into the depths of the OT, where it belongs.

If you really love something, you have to set it free.

	29-01-2004 13:42									#63
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I don't think it's a matter of "choice" so much as it is a matter of what porn you happen to watch. If you watch straight porn, you're probably straight. If you watch gay porn, you're probably gay, and so on and so forth.

	29-01-2004 19:27									#64
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider And his name is Mr. Fun.

Nah -- I'm just the secret moderator.




Anyway, it is a good question to ask -- "Do heterosexuals choose to be straight?"

	29-01-2004 19:29									#65
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I am bisexual and I don't believe it to be a choice.

I think human sexuality is like a sliding scale, with most people clumped at the hetereosexual end, others at the homosexual end, and a few in the middle. I don't believe there are such discrete groups as homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual, I believe that all humans are bisexual.

	29-01-2004 19:44									#66
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I don't really beleive in true bisexuality

and no, it is not a choice

Jon Miller

	30-01-2004 02:02									#67
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A person does make a choice about their sexuality. Some of you seem to think sexuality is like an instinct. There are no such things as human instincts apart from bodily secretions, reflexes, etc. . We have feelings and choose to act on those feelings by controlling (or not controlling) our thoughts. A person can adapt any sort of lifestyle they wish if they control their thought process skillfully enough.

	30-01-2004 02:03									#68
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Everyone is bisexual.

	30-01-2004 03:03									#70
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In case someone comes along and actually says something remotely serious, I'm straight, and I'm telling you, my richard has a mind of its own when I start thinking about a hot chick. I mean, I don't consciously send signals to it that say "get hard" when I go to a porno site. And I'm sure gays are the same way.

	30-01-2004 03:04									#71
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I could have told you that mrmitchell. Does your richard get like that on Apolyton?

	30-01-2004 03:11									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Holy ****. A door-to-door salesman (the first who's ever came to my apartment here) just tried to sell me a Japanese-language Bible, honest to god. I think the Lord heard all you naysayers questioning Japan's status as a Christian nation and decided to send me a sign...

so how do you know it was a CHRISTIAN bible??

(Wonders if anyone has EVER translated the bible into Japanese under Jewish auspices)

Oops, nah, sorry, as you were gentlemen.

	30-01-2004 03:49									#73
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True, everyone is bisexual. And yes, homosexuality could be considered as a choice- to the extent that you are free (in the official, contemporary morals) to react in a rational way to your physical desires.

	30-01-2004 04:23									#74
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I think if you look at species you will see evidence that a certain percentage vary from sexual norms. This is a genetic thing. We have homosexuals who are the way they are because of their genetic make-up. These arejust part of the process of natural selection. They don't reproduce, their inferior genes are being erased from the gene pool. Looking at it from a moral standpoint, these poor people are not sinners.

Then we have those who choose a homosexual lifestyle. These we may brand as sinners, from a moral point of view.

I know of no way to sort these folks out individually. They all have rights and deserve to be treated just like anyone else.

	30-01-2004 04:24									#75
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If it was natural selection, why are there still gay people?

	30-01-2004 04:25									#76
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Thank you...I think. Erm...hmmm...yes, wait...yes. Thank you, jimmytrick.

Edit: *Mumbles something about crossposts...*

	30-01-2004 04:31									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If it was natural selection, why are there still gay people?

This is a good question. I can't give you an answer.

	30-01-2004 04:39									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If it was natural selection, why are there still gay people?

There is no natural selection, it's just a lie.

God has created you this way. It's one nasty little part of the punishment for Adam's and Eve's sin: women are supposed to hurt when a child is born. Men are supposed to suffer in their daily life as they get food for the family. And gays are supposed to fvck married women in order not to go to hell

	30-01-2004 04:43									#79
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quote: This is a good question. I can't give you an answer.

The answer is that genes do not determine behavior. Even if there were a gene for homosexuality, not all with the gene would end up being strict homosexuals

	30-01-2004 04:45									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Other than the countries that don't. And we've seen how well those countries have competed with the Christian countries, haven't we? Face the facts; Christianity=progress.

But we seemed to make most of our progress as a society when we put religion aside and start thinking logically and to what we can do if we don't put contrived constraints on ourself - tolerance, technological and scientific advancement, welfare, etc, etc...these are all features of more modern secular states, not Christian ones.

	30-01-2004 04:48									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi The answer is that genes do not determine behavior. Even if there were a gene for homosexuality, not all with the gene would end up being strict homosexuals

The word you are looking for is predisposition...there can be a predisposition to a certain type of behaviour. However one has to remember the functions of genes. They do not code for bad behaviour or being a liar - they code for proteins and their regulation. Different genes will affect metabolic pathways in different ways, and/or possess different expression patterns. Remember we are virtually genetically identical to a chimpanzee, but it is about the total combination and interactions of our genome that define us. As you have stated, it is pure reductionism to start going on about the 'gay gene'...however there are genetic factors in how those genes affect brain structure. There may not be a gene, but there are factors in genetics that have a decisive effect.

	30-01-2004 05:07									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi The answer is that genes do not determine behavior. Even if there were a gene for homosexuality, not all with the gene would end up being strict homosexuals

Ben, no one has proven that genes determine behavior, but they might someday.

We just don't know enough about it yet. It's pretty clear that genetic makeup influences behavior. If you want to deny that, well go ahead. I don't have time to debate the point.

	30-01-2004 05:08									#83
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Of course it's not a choice. Who in their right mind would choose to have sex with men? And FTR I'm including women in that statement.

	30-01-2004 05:14									#84
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quote: Ben, no one has proven that genes determine behavior, but they might someday.

Either they do or they don't. Assuming that genes determine behavior, how does one explain homosexuality? It can, and has been shown, through examples like this, that genes do not determine behavior. They can influence behavior, and risk factors, but they cannot determine.

If you don't believe me, talk to Starchild.

	30-01-2004 05:18									#85
	Re: How can you believe homosexuality is a choice, unless you're bisexual? Put an end to popups!

Being a homosexual is not a choice (any more than liking chocolate is a "choice"), but engaging in homosexual relations is. My $.02

(I'm not making any value judgements or anything)

	30-01-2004 05:24									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Who in their right mind would choose to have sex with men?

All those men who are frustrated as women now have the taste to have sex only with other women

	30-01-2004 05:30									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor All those men who are frustrated as women now have the taste to have sex only with other women

Don't get me wrong. I wish homosexuality was a choice. Then I could persuade other men to become gay which would leave more babes for us real men.

	30-01-2004 05:31									#88
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PH:

Thank you. Yes, I know the word is predisposition.

	30-01-2004 05:34									#89
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Ben. Examine your own Mariah Carey fetish and tell us whether it's a choice or you just go weak at the knees every time you play one of her records.

	30-01-2004 05:51									#90
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quote: Examine your own Mariah Carey fetish and tell us whether it's a choice or you just go weak at the knees every time you play one of her records.

I've never bought one of her recordings.