02-02-2004 01:59									#1
	War Preparation Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Comrades, be prepared, we are going to war!

In preparation of the war, I have a couple suggestions. First, I propose to reactivate the shaddow ministry for the purpose of univ war preparation. I believe that it is highly likely that the Hive forum is infiltrated by the CCs and would prefer not to discuss the details of the war in here. All of the loyal comrades in the Hive will be added there. I will ask buster to post the turn in there instead of posting in the public forum. I would like to have some discussion about this.

Secondly, I would like to know who else can be our turn player for at least the next four or five turns. If we are going to prepare going into a war I think we should try keep the same turn player so that he can be familiar with what's going on. I can do it temporarily if we can't find a turn player quick enough, but I would need a lot of help from everybody. I'm going to start a job list thread and list specific areas that I can think that may help us but I won't have time to do.

Comrades, please we need everybody's help! Let's go kick some b**ts!

	02-02-2004 02:23									#2
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Highly likely? Please explain.

	02-02-2004 02:28									#3
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Enigma had told me that laurentise(sp) of the CC said that the only faction he is not infiltrated is the Drones. Plus I'm still wondering who was the first one that downloaded Hive's save for the last turn.

	02-02-2004 06:13									#4
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu laurentise(sp) of the CC said that the only faction he is not infiltrated is the Drones.

I think it was just braggart talking.

I have seen no evidence in anyones' forums that other forums have been infiltrated. In fact, as Tass will attest, the utter confusion in some forums re other faction's situations causes us to chuckle from time to time

G.

	02-02-2004 06:16									#5
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Googlie...get on MSN. We have a situation to discuss.

	02-02-2004 06:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Comrades, be prepared, we are going to war! In preparation of the war, I have a couple suggestions. First, I propose to reactivate the shaddow ministry for the purpose of univ war preparation.

I am OK with that. Limit it to those members who are active in the Hive. If someone else wants in then they should post a request; as well as offer a reason why they want in, and why they have not yet been active until access was limited.

I just hope that I can access the shadow.

quote: I believe that it is highly likely that the Hive forum is infiltrated by the CCs and would prefer not to discuss the details of the war in here. All of the loyal comrades in the Hive will be added there. I will ask buster to post the turn in there instead of posting in the public forum. I would like to have some discussion about this.

Although it looks like Tassadar is trying to clear the Deadwood right now, your suggestion has merit.

quote: Secondly, I would like to know who else can be our turn player for at least the next four or five turns. If we are going to prepare going into a war I think we should try keep the same turn player so that he can be familiar with what's going on. I can do it temporarily if we can't find a turn player quick enough, but I would need a lot of help from everybody. I'm going to start a job list thread and list specific areas that I can think that may help us but I won't have time to do.

Although I'll try to help you, entering this crucial period we need someone with real experiance as turnplayer.

I will try to run pararell turns so the turnplayer can see what I have done, and if any of it is of value, incorporate it into the real turn.

quote: Comrades, please we need everybody's help! Let's go kick some b**ts!

Yes, it looks like us and the Drones vs. Cycon.

I think the CyCons saw the writting on the wall with the Drones and us picking up the powerful SPs and knew that they needed to act soon.

But why would Uni allow themselves to be taken by CyCon without even talking to us?


Mead

	02-02-2004 06:36									#7
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It is starting to look to me like:

Drones, Hive, and Peace vs. CyCon and Uni


Let me know what everyone thinks.

If we agree then we should consider sharing this thought with our allies (Drones and Peace)

We need to consider coordianating our battle plans with our allies and bring this game to a quick
(victorious) conclusion.


Mead

	02-02-2004 09:57									#8
	When do we (Will we?) change from Wealth? Increase the size of your Attachments

Usually,

When I decide to go to war I change from Wealth to something else.

Right now, it looks like we only have Survival to go to.

Wealth, although it gives us +3 industry and -1 Economy, also sticks us with -2 Morale. This is something I do not want to have to build a military with.

Consider:

With Wealth Settings:

and our military unit cities creating combat units; will will get units that are disciplined.

This is because: very green + ((+2 command nexus or cloudbase +2 bioenhancment center))/2 which is [-1 morale, morale enhancers halved]

With Survival settings we get green +2 command nexus or cloudbase +2 bioenhancement = commando.

Additionally, there are nice monoliths just outside Meadopolis (we need a road built there, on the monolith), and Rokossovkygrad (which already has a road built there) that will give our land (Drop) units a top off to Elite morale.

I do not think we should make the change from Wealth just yet, but we should strongly consider it just before we rush build a bunch of military units.

I have not run the numbers. I know the costs of making the commando/elite units (Survival SE units) is greater than the disciplined (Wealth SE units), but I think that the additional costs of the substantially stronger (and faster) units are worth it.

Mead


PS

Please enlighten me on the morale properties of units based/made at bases that have children's creches, when they are away from their bases.

	02-02-2004 10:15									#9
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I think we need Comrade Vev to spam this topic a little.

	02-02-2004 10:42									#10
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I'd have no objections to reopening the shadow ministry, under a few condititions.

1. It be renamed something that doesn't imply excessive secrecy - The Emergency Management Ministry, or something like that.

2. The fact that such a ministry is operating be made clear in a topped thread in this forum, with information on the ministry's organization, purpose, and guidelines for entry.

3. All major policy decisions should be made this forum.

	02-02-2004 12:13									#11
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War is good. It'll give me something to write about, for once! Is there anything I can do with PRAVDA?

	02-02-2004 19:48									#12
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Do we need to poll if SE change is needed? Comrade Mead will you be able to do the poll?

I agree with all of Comrade Oct's suggestions regarding shaddow forum. I especially agree that the major policy decisions should be made here. The shaddow is only needed to talk about details, such as how many what units is going to attack which base at which hour, etc.

Regarding Pravda, I for one would like to see an article or something addressing the glorious accomplishment of the cloudbase academy SP with comments addressing enigma's contribution.

	02-02-2004 20:53									#13
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I am in full agreement and in full support of this mobilization order, the CyCon have gone too far and now remain the biggest threat to the Hive, action must be taken to secure our safety.

First and foremost I believe our priority should be the defense of the homeland, we must ensure that we are beyond defeat; our enemy will be the one that paves the path to victory through its mistakes.

The Hive homeland is seriously under-defended, the police Scout Patrols will not be enough to guard us against the infantry of the CyCon-Uni alliance if they reach our soil. Therefore we need to reinforce ground defense. But this should be done with the full intention of never allowing the CyCon-Uni to reach our soil. The first line of defense of the Hive must be naval, we need to keep their transports away from Hive soil therefore making the second line of defense redundant (keeping in mind redundancy in the military isn’t necessarily a bad things).

Once we have done this IMO only then can we think of a counter-invasion or invasion of the enemie’s homeland.

	03-02-2004 00:40									#14
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Agreed. What if we plan a "rolling defense"?

For instance, we can allocate PEACE to defend our shores from transports as a primary job, but still have a navy for additional protection. Whereas the Drones and ourselves would provide overlapping zones of protection between our land bases THEN amass an invasion sortie. Depending on which base of which faction can pump them out, I would say have rovers positioned in such a way where they can provide immediate assistance to places under attack.

I've done this a couple of times and while it may be taxing, resource-wise, I've found that it helps in either repulsing or stalling invaders when the s*** hits the fan. If someone has a better plan, I'm all for it.

What if PEACE ran a diversion bombardment while we begin our mobilization?

	03-02-2004 00:55									#15
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If we can try help PEACE to be afloat for four or five turns, then I think it is likely that the CCs will not divert their effort to us this quick. The univ right doesn't have the ability of attacking us. One of the threat of a CC-univ alliance to me is their research ability. If we don't attack uni now and wait till they have DAP and MMI then it will be much harder to fight them. That's why I think we should try to eliminate the univ as soon as possible.

If we have a good air force it could also serve as our first line of defense, that is to spot and attack any attacks from the sea.

	03-02-2004 01:27									#16
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1)well i think to defence our selvs, as our almighty chairman recomended, we should first build a fleet. a few vassels will be anough to defend our shores, no need for more right now.
2) we should build, at 1st step, at least 6 strong ground units, as chairman said- for redundancy.
3) a couple of air units would be anough at 1st to help defense.

the problem is that , paralel to all that, we should be building nodes to prevent future dron riots (which are quickly aproaching as i could see in many citys) cause it can badly heart our war-production eforts.
this force as to a 3 step production program:

1) half the citys that need nodes will be building them, the other half will begin with military units and the rest will do too. the halfs will change one by one as nodes are built.
2) building rest of needed military unit (only ofr defence!!)
3) building units for conquering force.

if this principlas look ok for most of you i'll need a list of defence units you want to build (only for defence!!) and i'll preper a prduction program for all citys.

	03-02-2004 01:49									#17
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For defense I suppose a few +3 garrison can be built to defend the coastle cities. I do not feel we should concentrate our effort to build a large navy force. If we were to go this route we would be able to do it long ago. But we waited to get DAP and MMI.

I still think we should build a good air force and coordinate with the Drones to take out the univ before they can even start thinking about attacking us. A good offense is a good defense.

For Drones problem, right now because of the number of crawlers I think we can offord some librarains perhaps supplemented with some cheap scouts. We will get police units in 3 turns and the scouts can be upgraded to polices if needed. It may take more than 3 turns to build a node in many bases anyway so the police route may actually be easier. We are the Hive. We should take advantage of that.

	03-02-2004 02:43									#18
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an air fleet can not patrol coasts to check for intrutions, and a naval fleet for this might only take about 3-4 vassels.
the police idea might be good. any way the crowlers should be scrified to build military units, they wont do as any good (though i might be wrong for this one). specialy if we want to concentrate in military units.

	03-02-2004 03:04									#19
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quote: It is starting to look to me like: Drones, Hive, and Peace vs. CyCon and Uni

I think we can now consider that a "cold war" is in place between the two superpowers.

We need to prepare for the possibility of a "hot war"

The first step we MUST take is to cancel our pact with the CyCon. We can't let them see our preparations, but thanks to the Drones being governor, we can spy on them still. Secondly we need to switch all bases to millitary production. And I mean ALL. The biggest advantage we have is that we can flood the CyCon and Uni with more units. Thirdly we need to discuss detailed war plans with the Drones. We MUST consider that the CyCon-Uni block are now our enemies. If they are perma-pacting, then there is no chance of a shared victory anymore. Planet ain't big enough for the two of us...

-Jam

	03-02-2004 03:07									#20
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i'm against using ALL bases for military units AT THIS SPESIFIC MOMENT. but totaly agree with all other.
well sayd cammarade Jamski

	03-02-2004 03:11									#21
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Salutae Kamrade!

I don't see why we can't put at least MOST of the bases to millitary building now. We really need at least 10-15 of our best foils in the water as soon as damm well possible. That means getting ALL the coastal bases building, and rushing the prototypes. Then we need better defenders... after we have built all that lot we should have D:AP, then we just need some sea-bases to serve as a launch-base for bombing the CyCon...

But we need a sea-screen of foils first.

-Jam

	03-02-2004 03:18									#22
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any one has subjections to this plan?

	03-02-2004 03:24									#23
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I'm just paranoid - if they get troops landed its goodbye crawlers, goodbye formers.... we go DOWN.

-Jam

	03-02-2004 03:54									#24
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I agree with what has been said so far, in particular about the Cold War analogy Jamski brought up. Though I would like to stress the need for a wider defenses then just along the costal cities. I’d feel more secure if we could eventually build up a garrison of at least 2 defensive units in each of our cities; ideally this is what we should be aiming for, but for the time being the costal defenses will do.

Also, speaking of the Cold War scenario, we need to ensure we get Planet Busters first, it is imperative that we have them in order to maintain the balance of power on our side.

One other thing of note, I agree with HongHu that we should take the University out first in a combined attack with the Drones, get them out of the way so we can concentrate on the CyCon.

	03-02-2004 04:06									#25
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quote: One other thing of note, I agree with HongHu that we should take the University out first in a combined attack with the Drones, get them out of the way so we can concentrate on the CyCon.

Me too - and the sooner the better IMHO.

I'm not sure we should place our faith in base defenders though. The CyUni can simply kill all our crawlers and bombard all our t-forming.... We need that foil screen. Attack foils and Probe foils and even a few Armour foils?

-Jam

	03-02-2004 04:21									#26
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Wow I am late catching up.

Okay a very long time back in turn 2120's I was inspired by Googlies PB production plan.

The idea was to make use of crawlers and prototype designs. If we wish to use the crawlers, at least use the full value.

The idea was to have one prototype design not yet built, maybe, the needlejet or chopper chassis, or missle weapon, and build lots of it in one go.

This works because you can use all of the crawler's value for prototypes.

The down side is co-ordinating the whole deal. You have a window of one, possibly two turns to exploit this.

Turn 1:
One base fully pays the prototype cost with all the minerals ready.
All other bases fill up to 2/3 or slightly less - depending on production rate. This is done with crawlers to take advantage of it, otherwise all this effort is unnecessary.

Although not as important, it would be nice to stay under that value or else it will result in wasted minerals.

Turn 2:
One base completes the prototype.
All other participating bases will have their cost reduced and are now ready to finish the production.

PM me, if there is something urgent.

	03-02-2004 04:22									#27
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What about using needlet jet patrols instead of foils?

	03-02-2004 04:24									#28
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Does the same job, then yeah. But we need them soon.

-Jam

	03-02-2004 04:35									#29
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Don't we have the design?

	03-02-2004 05:45									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Vev What about using needlet jet patrols instead of foils?

I agree.

Our foils will be very vulnerable to CyCon.

They have Maritime +2 movement.

If we put foils in the water it is likely that they will be found and destroyed.

We have Cloudbase.

We can cover a lot of area with a few needlejets.

Our needlejets will be at least commando, with 12 movement per turn.

Our foils will likely be green or perhaps hardened with only four movements per turn.

Plus, our needlejets will be at far smaller risk (immune at this time and for the near future) to their ships.

We need a few ships/foils to take the sea bases, but we should emphasize airpower.

Airpower is far more versitle (can hit land and sea targets), mobile, and surviveable than seapower.

Let's play to our strengths (airpower) not their's (seapower).

Let's get an airforce, and quickly.


Mead