02-02-2004 14:18									#1
	OCC without Colossus Support Apolyton

Yes, it's possible - I managed to win this.
I had a good site with 4 specials (2 x wine, 1 Iron, 1 whale). Opening the "wrong" huts, I couldn't invent bronze working in time, so another civ built Colossus.
I decided to take the HG. In Monarchy, it has a similar effect to trade as Colossus during "we love" days (+1 trade arrow). Then my research went the Republic-Democracy-way. I wanted to get Superhighways as fast as possible.
I managed to win that game.

	02-02-2004 15:44									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Depending upon the starting terrain, then it wouldn't make a vast difference. If you can get early camels out, to cities with good trade then you can make a fortune just on the trade routes. A city with loads of rivers will also make a big difference, especially once they have roads built on them.

Well done for winning the OCC - the HG is excellent to celebrate the SSC, and if you can get Colossus too, then you need not worry about science for the rest of the game, as long as you can keep the celebrations going.

	02-02-2004 22:14									#3
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congrats.

But since someone won a size one artic OCC game, I doubt there are many handicaps that someone wouldn't be able to beat.

	02-02-2004 22:45									#4
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quote: Originally posted by rah congrats. But since someone won a size one artic OCC game, I doubt there are many handicaps that someone wouldn't be able to beat.

How about they tried OCC in one of Rah MP games with an arctic start?

	02-02-2004 23:16									#5
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I think you'd need the "Stealth City" tech for that one...

	02-02-2004 23:43									#6
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Stealth City

I HIGHLY doubt anybody could win an OCC game played in MP against competent opponents. Now granted, I thougt a few of the OCCs were not possible when originally discussed.

	03-02-2004 03:00									#7
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The required win would have to be by spaceship, with any AI civs Restarts On...

	03-02-2004 04:52									#8
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Would this be with all the human players playing OCC (and any other civs AI) or with one civ playing OCC with all other civs human and free to play the game normally?

	03-02-2004 10:34									#9
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I think a "size one" OCC is only winnable if there are at least 2 or 3 other civs on your continent.

	03-02-2004 14:23									#10
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And if you can start on a gold mountain by the sea....

	03-02-2004 22:42									#11
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An all-OCC MP game would be a race to Colossus, Copernicus, and Newtons. If they all started on the same continent there would have to be alliances for the RD/RR bonus, but whoever was doing worse would be tempted to cancel, and it would degenerate into "RoadWar". To have a decent chance, an OCC player in a non-OCC MP game would have to have those three Wonders "reserved" for him/her, maybe Shakes and/or KingRich as well. Of course, a key alliance could keep him/her out of trouble enough to get ahead while everyone else makes war. But I can't imagine too many MP games aim for Spaceship finish...

	04-02-2004 00:36									#12
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That might be an interesting game -- a four player OCC game with the stipulation that NOBODY gets to make ANY wonders.

	04-02-2004 05:33									#13
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I would think it would be a much quicker MP game then most wouldn't it?

	04-02-2004 14:38									#14
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That depends upon whether you're playing at rah speed, or whether you need the time to think (slowly).

	04-02-2004 18:13									#16
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Eveyone doing OCC would be a quick game. Considerably less units to move, considerably less city maint, and considerably less thinking.

But most importantly, easier to eliminate your opponents.

	04-02-2004 19:22									#17
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Let's try one Rah

	04-02-2004 19:39									#18
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I wonder what the optimal number of players would be. We usually go with 4, but in OCC, more might be ok.

One issue would be what happens if you capture someone elses city, are you allowed to keep it?

	04-02-2004 19:59									#19
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Well, the optimal number of players would probably be 7 cause the game would run much faster. If we play double production we might just be able to do it without relying too much on colossus, though col wouldn't hurt.

The location of this city would be of paramount importance so would the distance to the other cities.

Probably trade partnerships would develop and possibly roads would connect these two trade partners. Of course assuming you can trust your trade partners

It would be extremely difficult to achieve victory by spacerace if we maintain no tech trade rule.

Let's agree that the one who captures a city can keep that city - you can only build a city once in this game but you can have as many as 7.

	04-02-2004 22:57									#20
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I foresee a 7-civ MP OCC one-citizen polar game before too long......

	05-02-2004 03:17									#21
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quote: Originally posted by rah One issue would be what happens if you capture someone elses city, are you allowed to keep it?

Once you capture one other city your power and potential will grow so quickly you will be unstoppable. Keep to the OCC rule that you cannot capture another city, you must raze it. Gives the weak player under attack a little chance...

If you do play one, someone post an AAR here (or a link) to let us know what happened.

	05-02-2004 03:51									#22
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You could bet that I wouldn't have an unguarded rail line to anybody.

I doubt it would ever get to a space race. It would be a hut chase for non-units and bribing those that would be non-units based on location, and then whoever got leos would probably have a heck of an advantage that I'm sure would be exploited.

Think of what defense you would need to stop a real player. If you were close to the ocean there probably isn't a way. You would be wasting a lot of shields.

The caravan defense/sentry can be effective against the AI, but humans would laugh at it.

	05-02-2004 15:07									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Elephant Once you capture one other city your power and potential will grow so quickly you will be unstoppable. Keep to the OCC rule that you cannot capture another city, you must raze it. Gives the weak player under attack a little chance...

You could just build city walls and force the attacker to poison your water supply to reduce the city to size 1 before capturing it. You'd need a massive effort to take another city.

	05-02-2004 20:50									#24
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If you make it too hard to take a city, what's the point. The true test is finding the right balance. Or judging when it's time to throw the dice and risk diverting resources to try to take someone out. A pure tech race between 7 one city civs would not hold my interest.

	05-02-2004 21:45									#25
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But of course rah, all aspects of an MP game must be represented here. But in order to increase the number of strategies and allow a tech race if someone chooses so, I believe we have to allow tech trading.

I don't think anybody will leave his city undefended. It's just not in the spirit of MP. So I think shields would be far more valuable than arrows in this game. And with only one city, who needs monarchy?

	05-02-2004 21:58									#26
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Another thought.

In a normal MP game you can allow yourself the luxury of losing one of your cities due to poor defence.
In this game, I expect defence at the premium since losing one city means losing your entire civ.


Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.
Evidence of thriving towns, robotics, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.
Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase:

"RAH will return!"

	05-02-2004 23:47									#27
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Yeah, pretty good, but I doubt it would be my city destroyed.

We don't allow tech trading in our current games, so I know I wouldn't want it in one of these games. And I would be nice to have only once city that a tech could be stolen from. It's always annoying to be Techs 'R' Us, like I normally am.

	06-02-2004 04:17									#28
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tech trading really would be nescessary. The thing I feel would happen in a MP OCC is that everyone would be so bent out of shape about defense that it would make it diffiucult to build up your city. Perhaps one of the games criteria would be peacful alliance from all civs. Of course RAH would hate that

	06-02-2004 15:17									#29
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yeah, pretty good, but I doubt it would be my city destroyed.

That's not what MyWifeHatesCiv told me!

	06-02-2004 17:23									#30
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Just one thought: Advanced Tribes...

While in SP it's no problem to save before opening a hut and reloading if you get a city (meaning not OCC any longer), it would be MUCH longer and unpractical in a MP game...

As I'm not a MP specialist, I might be wrong on that, though...

Of course, you could then play without huts, for Rah greatest pleasure...