03-02-2004 03:25									#1
	The strongest Civ. C3C Edition. Inflate your Upload Space

Playing Emperor, Continents.

I vote for the Celts. Gallic Swordsman price reduced to 40 sheilds...a 3-2-2 swordsman is devastating at a bargain 40 shields (Cost 50 in PTW).

The AG-Religious trait is a great combo. With a well watered start on your continent with Iron closeby..The continent is yours for the taking.

What Civ do you think is the most powerful in C3C?

	03-02-2004 03:37									#2
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It depends on a number of things and the settings. I will say I used the GS to great effect in either a Emp or Demi game. The two move is very strong and if you get an army to stick them in, it is brutal in the ancient age.

	03-02-2004 03:38									#3
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Oh, don't screw up like I did with that army. I stuck a 4th member in later that was an upgraded GS and it killed the extra move.

	03-02-2004 05:31									#4
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I'm torn between Persia and Celts when it comes to ancient era UUs.

But in general I _hate_ ancient era GA. It just feels so... Wasted. Yes, yes, I know it can propel me into a lead that a late game GA never really does. I just cry at the thought of all those unworked tiles.

Inca, Sumerian and Ottomans are personal favourites. Probably with Inca in the lead, as any non-expansionist civ popping huts on higher diffs is just a death trap.

	03-02-2004 05:54									#5
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I think mapsize and what your goal is has a lot to do with things.

Seafaring and Agricultural civs are generally strong in continents settings. Enough land together that you can expect rivers and gaps between landmasses.

UU's are great, but if you can't ship them where they need to go, they become irrelevant. Normally you don't need a UU to secure your continent, it just makes it faster. If you have to wait till Astronomy or Navigation to cross safely, then the units you are fighting with aren't the limiting factor in how fast you can expand, techrate and naval transport are.

My personal favorite are the Dutch. They make the most of land and water, even if their UU isn't the greatest (though certainly nice to have). For securing your own continent, the Celts and Iroquois are both very strong. For securing the other continent(s), the Ottomans and Vikings are holy terrors, but take longer to get rolling. Since you are probably waiting until mid-late Middle Ages in this case, that's not really a problem though.

	03-02-2004 07:08									#6
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After C3C it is not easy to avoid ancient era GA's. You need a few things to be able to delay it.

Notably isolation or limited civs. If you have to share your land it is hard not to use that early UU if at high levels. If at medium levels you have to watch out for the wonder triggers.

So many of the PTW and C3C civs have ancient UU's I just try to get up some cities to get what I can out of the GA, if I can't put it off.

	03-02-2004 08:32									#7
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Byzantenes rule! Seafaring and scientific mean they lead the tech race for most of the game.

	03-02-2004 21:32									#8
	Re: The strongest Civ. C3C Edition. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Artifex Playing Emperor, Continents. I vote for the Celts. Gallic Swordsman price reduced to 40 sheilds...a 3-2-2 swordsman is devastating at a bargain 40 shields (Cost 50 in PTW).

I discovered too late that the Gallic Swordsman becomes outmoded very quickly. Sure, it's great for securing your own contintent, but Medieval Infantry come along soon and are not a replacement.

I like the Spanish. The seafaring and religious combo can really move things albeit their special unit is kinda weak.

	03-02-2004 22:08									#9
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Ok, celts are good, but it has got to be either the ottomans or the Carthage.

Carthage has those beautiful 2.3.1 defenders at bronze working, just as good as hoplites, but you can attack with them. The traits are'nt bad either, industrious (even with the nerf) and seafaring.

The ottomans are industrious and scientific, with siphaphi, 8.3.3, can even take out riflemen in cities on hills easily. They last for atleast a hundred turns, enough to produce tons, even at 100 shields/unit.

	04-02-2004 00:02									#10
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I've always thought Carthage's UU is kind of weak. A 2/3/1 unit for 30 shields. No thanks. The Romans get a 3/3/1 unit for 30 that can be an upgrade from a Warrior. OK, it needs Iron but still. The Greek Hoplight is only 20 shields for 1/3/1. Iroquios 30 shield Mounted Warrior is superior to all of them at 3/1/2.

And I didn't even mention the Persians.

	04-02-2004 03:22									#11
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Byzantines are nice merger of traits and UU. But I can't shake my love of the Sumerians for some reason. I just really like that civ.

	04-02-2004 03:23									#12
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The good point of it is that you can build them instead of archers to go and attack with. nothig can kill them outright short of swordsmen, and they can pillage opponents improvements with impunity. That and if you take a city, you've got some ready made defenders.

	04-02-2004 03:50									#13
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The Dutch are a strong civ but if you have to fight an early war and can get horses rather than iron the Sumerians are a must have. So probably my vote is for them.

	04-02-2004 04:23									#14
	Re: Re: The strongest Civ. C3C Edition. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Exquisitor I like the Spanish. The seafaring and religious combo can really move things albeit their special unit is kinda weak.

*Blasphemer*! *Infidel*! *Take him away and let the Holy Inquisition deal with him*!

The Conquistador, for me anyway, is one of those units that isn't just a '+1 attack / defence / move' but much better. It opens up a whole new line of attack - sort of like the Berserk (Amphibious Warfare an era-and-a-half early) or the Dromon (shore bombardment an era-and-a-half ahead,) my other two favourites.

Take an undefended city 6 squares deep in enemy territory surrounded by mountains! Rip up that Saltpeter deep on an enemy mountain on the turn you declare war! They may not last long in direct warfare but they're effectively your 'Special Ops' troops, not regulars. And they're *fun* to use.

And an Army of Conquistadors is a lawnmowing machine, able to penetrate deep into enemy territory, chewing up improvements, cutting off trade routes and depriving the enemy of resources. Pillage 8 squares a turn, move into enemy territory, over mountains, whatever.

Conquistadors are what have turned the Spanish from 'top few' (on the basis of Sea/Rel) to 'definite favourite' for me.

	05-02-2004 20:59									#15
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I vote for The Celts or The Maya.

If you have never tried The Maya, I highly suggest you do so. the sheer number of workers you generate is very compelling.

	05-02-2004 22:02									#16
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I generated 10 in one city from defense. None or nearly none from barbs as the AI wiped them out in a hurry (Sid and they have many troops).

	05-02-2004 23:45									#17
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quote: Aeson said... My personal favorite are the Dutch. They make the most of land and water, even if their UU isn't the greatest (though certainly nice to have).

I've played the Dutch the last couple of times and found that a combined arms attack of Swiss Mercenaries and Knights, with Crusaders as nutcrackers, though slower than knights alone was very effective and difficult to stop. And 2 or 3 curraugh(s) can explore a Lot of territory and locate the ivory. However, my knights did have to learn a lot of self-control to hold back with the slow guys and let the crusaders take out the pikes first.

GarP2, the slow

	06-02-2004 00:00									#18
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Mayans are addictive for early game, but they kind of peter off later.

	06-02-2004 00:35									#19
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Bring on the Celts...

	06-02-2004 02:11									#20
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I love the Mayas. That one extra food allows one more mined hill for most cities, and if there's desert, the food bonus greatly increases!

Plus they start with Pottery and can build the Granery quickly by choping down forests. (Americans can also do this.)

I avoided the early GA as Maya by simply keeping my military strength high enough to keep the AI from wanting to attack me. The first war I had was started by me the turn I discovered Fission and noticed how far the Uranium was from my then very well developed but kind of small empire. I already had Modern Armor and Mech Inf and so the regular infantry + Calvary of my target was hopelessly outclassed.

	06-02-2004 02:19									#21
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Both Seafaring and Expansionist traights are very good for increasing contacts. Expansionist is somewhat better early on due to goody huts on the main land, but later on seafaring becomes better. Expansonist is also purely active while seafaring does have the passive element of increased commerce for a sea on the coast.

Agricutural and Industrial both have passive and active features. (More food or shield in city tiles being passive and irrigating desert / all worker actions faster being active)

Commerical is purely passive. (Less corruption and increased commerence)

Relgious, Scientific, and Military are purely active. (Half price of some stuctrues.)