03-02-2004 03:41									#1
	Game mod creation: About link between techs of modern times and AC Tired of ads?

I read a thread somewhere in this forum
(but cant remember where )
where some guys were discussing about the link between AC and modern Earth.

It interests me alot
(and i hope others too)
which techs we already have here on Earth and if there's any tech not found on AC
for example:
tech:GeoEcology
instead of
tech:CentauriEcology

So I open a thread where anyone can express their opinion about :

1) Which techs form AC are already discovered on our homeplanet

1a) Same about secret projs
(it came to my ears lately that "The Human Genome project" is being "constructed" in real life represented by numerous researches in DNA decipherating)

2)Which techs are Earth-specific and is there an equal on AC
(as above with "Eco" techs)

3) If a list of Earth techs is created for a game not called AlphaCenaturi, but maybe Sol or something about that,
(in real life this project will be just a set of modifed AC setting files as "alpha.txt" for example)
what techs must be in this list and how do they relate to each other - tech levels and prerequisites and what opportunities do they open - SecretProjs, BaseFacilities, SE choices etc.

4)What factions should there be on Earth
(I propose US and China as "must-be" ones)

5)And in the end - everything you've heard about new discoveries or research directions in science which somehow relates to SMAC
(for example - nanotechnologies are showing up,so Hovertank on earth seems not a level 8, but maybe 4 to 6 tech)


If enough information will be gathered,a game mod called "how-will-you-call-it?" will appear with the techs and facs from this thread included.
This is your opportunity to participate in creation of a new game!
For information about mods see http://www.geocities.com/alde_baron/
(aldebaran project)

Hoping for free flow of information

	03-02-2004 10:04									#2
	Got spare money?

The Human Genome Project is kinda international research, coz it needs tremendous amount of work, as i have heard. Here is a link, and it actually is called: The Human Genome Project
http://www.genome.gov/10001772

The Earth Scenario might be actually very nice thing. It could be somehow included in the story, if some explanation would be given, why contact with Alpha Centauri was lost. Maybe a nuclear war? so that would be earth after the nuclear conflict - but people would not rise from stone age again, just they would have to deal with damaged earth - limited population (war killed most of them). Just ideas for a scenario.

USA and China? Maybe the idea of something close to factions might be better, like societies would form based on cultural models. Thus we might have wester culture and asian culture - something like that.Those cultures might have to develop almost from scratch.

Replacements:

Fungus - radioactive remnant - to be cleaned
Mindworms - mutant gorrillas, horses, cats, dogs, whatever you name it .......... just attacking people for food ......
Monoliths - remnant undamaged buildings after nuclear blasts
Alien Artifacts - high tech remnants - (like electronic two-processor, with enrgizer lithium bateries for life toothbrush )

Techs:

Centauri Ecology - Ecological Restoration
Centauri Empathy - Secrets of Telepathy
Centauri Genetics - Mass Decontamination
Centauri Meditation - Radioactivity Reuse
Centauri Psi - .... disabled, no need for food there
Planetary Networks - Internet or New Internet
Secrets of Alpha Centauri - ..... smth like SuperTelepathy or Matter-Energy control by brain

	03-02-2004 11:34									#3
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Just ideas for a scenario.

Nuclear war wuld be good -> as it is seen in the AC movie at the beginnin of game

quote: USA and China? Maybe the idea of something close to factions might be better, like societies would form based on cultural models. Thus we might have wester culture and asian culture - something like that.Those cultures might have to develop almost from scratch.

Like in that unfinished faction set in netnode.org
I think it was called "nu sector" or "Second mission" or smth like that.
There was EurAmerica & some kind of muslim fac
After a nuclear war we will certainly need russians (or communists), because there's very many of those bunkers for covering in times of nuke war in former USSR
I live in former USSR and I pass one of those bunkers every day when marching to my university
Maybe we should give them "underground bunkers" ability as for Yang and some more techs,they've kept in underground

Also some kind of Latino-americans (not determined by racial differences) should be good - something like CEO Morgan, but formed not of simple traders bu drug dealers..

quote: Replacements: Fungus - radioactive remnant - to be cleaned Mindworms - mutant gorrillas, horses, cats, dogs, whatever you name it .......... just attacking people for food ...... Monoliths - remnant undamaged buildings after nuclear blasts Alien Artifacts - high tech remnants - (like electronic two-processor, with enrgizer lithium bateries for life toothbrush )

This is a good one!
Especially the toothbrush!
About monoliths-very realistic!
They give salvage resources to bases and units (in turn improving their combat strenght with salvaged high-tech weapons and when the site is exhausted,it just disappears!

quote: Techs: Centauri Ecology - Ecological Restoration Centauri Empathy - Secrets of Telepathy Centauri Genetics - Mass Decontamination Centauri Meditation - Radioactivity Reuse Centauri Psi - .... disabled, no need for food there Planetary Networks - Internet or New Internet Secrets of Alpha Centauri - ..... smth like SuperTelepathy or Matter-Energy control by brain

Centauri Psi and also others could be modified to not have those bonus effects on fungus and used for creating other techs
Also I suggest that Jets,Copters and missiles become available much sooner (not in 4th,6th & 6th level) but maybe from 1st to 3rd or 4th

Techs:
Information Networks - Recovered Information Structures
High Energy Chemistry - Nuclear Alloys (metals left from Nukewar and melted together when BigBoom took place)
not the best name,maybe you could propose better
Superconductor - (Level 2 tech) Recovered Science (from the scientist bunkers - particle boosters,neutrino telescopes & others)
... - Anti-Radioactivity Barriers (substances which turn radioactivity into other energy types thus protecting all within barrier)

Imagination low this morning - have to sleep better for better ideas!

One good idea - how about those nuclear subs roaming the oceans
Theyd survive a nuclear war!
But where can I put them?
Maybe some Naval tech or predefined unit design..

	03-02-2004 20:49									#4
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Actually, you have to take into account that the Unity leaves Sol at 2060. And the nuclear holocaust probably only happened some time after departure. Thus at least a 60 year increase of present technology can be thought of.

Techs can be renamed and re-shuffled, no probem there. More difficult is to balance the abilities and chassisses. For instance, submarines exist nowadays, so it would be weird to put that high and dry in the tech tree. Synthetic Fossil Fuels should be discovered, but perhaps short-range choppers can be build earlier, while needlejets have an increase in range -and turn.

Graphics can easily be changed, and the unit's parameters as well. For instance change a mindworm to a scout patrol (and it's atttack behaviour) and call it a bandit, rebel or a gangster or whatever. Another option is to use the graphics -and abilities from a Progenitor wardrone and use those as some sort of rogue attack robots (terminator ). But the further you go up in the tech tree, the more you can leave it as it is now.

	04-02-2004 00:50									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

Sounds like an very interesting scenario. I can't wait to see how it all turns out!

	04-02-2004 21:25									#6
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I was out 4 some time, just read GeoModders reply..
I will answer in full sentences some time later,but I can remind U to watch intro movie of SMAC another time -> it shows:
As Unity leaves Earth theres some flashing lights on Earths surface,which are so big that can be nothing else than a nukewar!

So,most of the techs will be lost,with only remains in form of "artifacts" as I propose to call "alien artifacts" from SMAC.

But dont worry,if Ure a High-Tech admirer, Nanotechs will probably be in the first levels & Planes & Choppers too..

Dont have SMAX, but probably will,when creation of this mod will come to an end
Then I will use the new features from it.

	04-02-2004 21:28									#7
	Ideas wanted! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sovereign Sounds like an very interesting scenario. I can't wait to see how it all turns out!

And U can make it even more interesting by giving some of your ideas!
This is a complete "brainstorm" thread and all ideas will be taken into consideration, but only the best->into game mod!

	05-02-2004 16:16									#8
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by binTravkin As Unity leaves Earth theres some flashing lights on Earths surface,which are so big that can be nothing else than a [b]nukewar![/b

Or reflections from the engines on the atmosphere... But I'll have to see the intro again to be sure.

	05-02-2004 16:30									#9
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Might be!

	06-02-2004 21:28									#10
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Well, I have a question.

What about the victory conditions? Transcendence should be changed to "Contact Alpha Centauri Colonies" or something like that.

Also, fungus missiles should be changed to Ultra-Neutron Bomb, a bomb of intense radiation that kills all units within a radius proportional to power plant, and reduce city size to 1... similiar to planet busters. It will cause the terrain to be radiated all over again. To offset all this, these "fungus missiles" should have its costs multiplied by at least 2 or 3.

	09-02-2004 14:35									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Sovereign What about the victory conditions? Transcendence should be changed to "Contact Alpha Centauri Colonies" or something like that.

Mmm, with an all-out increase of radio-active lands?

quote: Originally posted by Sovereign [QUOTE]Also, fungus missiles should be changed to Ultra-Neutron Bomb, a bomb of intense radiation that kills all units within a radius proportional to power plant, and reduce city size to 1... similiar to planet busters. It will cause the terrain to be radiated all over again. To offset all this, these "fungus missiles" should have its costs multiplied by at least 2 or 3.

Planet Busters DESTROY cities, they don't reduce the population. But if you know a trick to let Fungal Missiles reduce the basesize to 1, I will be happy to learn it...

For the rest, that neutron bomb idea is a good one.

	09-02-2004 16:30									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Planet Busters DESTROY cities, they don't reduce the population. But if you know a trick to let Fungal Missiles reduce the basesize to 1, I will be happy to learn it...

A Scud Missile (conventional missile armed with a nerve agent warhead) will kill the primary defender of a city, reduce the population by a factor of "X", but leave all other defending units unharmed. This is about as close as your going to get to simulating a neutron bomb in SMAC(X), IMO. FYI.



D

	09-02-2004 19:38									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Did you know that Command Nexus has already been built?
It is Pentagon!


Idea about that Nerve missile is quite good, Ill try it! Also rename of Fungal Payload and Race To Transcendence (alas Race To The Stars) seem quite reasonable!

About changing behavior of Busters - Maybe reduce in "firepower" might do it..

	10-02-2004 03:24									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Mmm, with an all-out increase of radio-active lands?

The event could be a major natural disaster or battle or terrorist attack that renders land uninhabitable, spurring a race to the stars (Alpha Centauri or elsewhere).

	11-02-2004 18:27									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

One other thought - you can dumb down the name of the base technologies, thus starting from lower tech. It would be a tough balance, but you start off with black powder, then smokeless powder, machine guns, artillery, etc. Then you can have Farm Machinery, etc. Hold it, this would be a historical SMAC mod. Maybe an idea for a different thread.

	13-02-2004 00:40									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise The event could be a major natural disaster or battle or terrorist attack that renders land uninhabitable, spurring a race to the stars (Alpha Centauri or elsewhere).

Actually, I used that trick in the marssurvivors scenario. I gave the voice of planet' project another movie which seemed fitting to me (nano factory). The idea was that, and I quote 'those little homuncili', were given intelligence but indeed no longer obey humanity. The fungus (renamed lichen in the scenario) was then a home for those nanorobots and the planet was filled with that. The 'ascend to transcendence' was then a project on which humans try to escape this 'takeover'.

	13-02-2004 03:03									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc One other thought - you can dumb down the name of the base technologies, thus starting from lower tech. It would be a tough balance, but you start off with black powder, then smokeless powder, machine guns, artillery, etc. Then you can have Farm Machinery, etc. Hold it, this would be a historical SMAC mod. Maybe an idea for a different thread.

Yes, that's all possible. But why bother? There are games who already have these 'history' thing. Besides, how would the existing graphics fit in in a historical setting? It's hardly likeable that a scout, renamed 'musketeer' or something, can be the strongest units 'till you find machinegun (laser).

	16-02-2004 00:20									#18
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There are a number of things that appear to be hardwired into the game, such as most of the features of the SP's, some of the aspects of the NL units (wired to their slots in the #Units list), etc. A lot of this can be dealt with in one way or another, but needs at least to be taken into account and kept track of (for example, most of the aspects of the techs are controlled by various other tables - for which the techs serve as prereqs - or those flags), but there may be other oddities, inconsistencies, anachronisms, etc., that need to be explained away. Some things may just have to be lived with (for example, I think a couple of the graphics for certain NL units seem to be hardwired, or at least hidden somewhere) as may be some of text (i.e., Darsnan replaced IoD's with 'Krakken' or something in a recent scenario, but the game continued to warn that of an 'IoD spotted near xxx').

Entirely doable though, IMhO, and sounds like a good and rewarding project, but quite a bit of detail intensive work, including the creation of new graphics most likely.

Some of the stuff will no doubt require the players to modify some of their AC main directory files to make it work, which requires some caution in order to not screw up PBEMs with the normal setup.

	16-02-2004 02:12									#19
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller Some things may just have to be lived with (for example, I think a couple of the graphics for certain NL units seem to be hardwired, or at least hidden somewhere) as may be some of text (i.e., Darsnan replaced IoD's with 'Krakken' or something in a recent scenario, but the game continued to warn that of an 'IoD spotted near xxx').

The "Sea Kraken" replaced the Sealurk, and the "Kra-Lek Sea City" replaced the IoD. The warnings accompanying the appearance of these units are in the script.txt file, and are relatively straightforward to edit. The Datalinks descriptions are in the helpx.txt file.

The other 3 files you may want to edit are the interludex.txt, conceptsx.txt, and labels.txt.
The way I keep my two versions of SMAC(X) seperate is that I have done a second loading of SMAC(X) onto my D: drive, complete with Googlie's No CD Crack, and then put icons for each loading onto my desktop: one for SMAC(X), and one for my mod, Beta Lyrae. Finally, if that isn't enough to help me keep them seperate, why I have a different textures file for my mod, Beta Lyrae, giving the map graphics a much different appearance than SMAC(X).
As far as the unit graphics are concerned, why the Network Node has some tutorials on how to edit these, IIRC, and from my understanding the Node is working on a mod "Return to Earth", which looks quite interesting so far. FYI.


D

	17-02-2004 12:20									#20
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As far as the unit graphics go, I don't believe that I've ever found the source of the IoD graphics (or for that matter, the standard non-native units either); the only ones I've seen are those in Units.pcx, and some of the stuff in there looks to be treated a little differently (like the artifacts and the battle ogres) - there are also 4 MW-looking things on the bottom of the units.pcx and I don't think they are Locusts, which would otherwise be unaccounted for also.

It might have been my imagination, but I thought that the Kra-Lek cities looked a little different than IoD's, like the cities were a bit less irregular around the perimeter.

	17-02-2004 17:26									#21
	Got spare money?

IoD's are created by the same mechanism that puts new weapons/abilities/armor on a existent chassis. I suppose the pic of an IoD is hardwired in that.

The main difference is that pictures in the units.pcx file can't have a simulated move, meaning that they always show the same side to the player. IoD's have an change of direction when moving to other tiles like all other chassis.

But you're right about that Kra-Lek city thing. I tried to let MW have the same 'moving around' effect by giving them that IoD property, and what I got was an almost-but-not-quite IoD in the game.

	17-02-2004 20:55									#22
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Ive found that maintaining 2 similar threads in different forums makes some difficulties, so I announce that from now on this thread will be the main!

Heres a link for that second thread,some different ideas mentioned there,so you can check out:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=107776