03-02-2004 21:42									#1
	War Plan - diplomatic front Increase the size of your Attachments

I will try to list my current thinking about the diplomatic front of the war plan here for discussions and approval:

Before the next turn we will try to stall the CCs by telling them that their proposals regarding us pacting with uni and further cooperations have been heatedly discussed inside the Hive.

After we receive the next turn (2156), upon verifying that the Drones have sent us the missle prototype, we downgrade the CC pact into treaty (so that they won't see our military preparation). Send them an official message saying that the CC univ pact has caused uneasiness from the people of the Hive and we would like to have more time to consider this situation.

Turn 2158, we propose a planetary concil meeting demanding the CC stops aggressiveness against the PEACE and return half of the PEACE bases. The votes will be 3 vs 2. We give the CC 1 - 2 turns to respond. It will be hard to manage the return of the bases if they accept but they will not accept.

Turn 2160, the Hive, Drones and Peace declare vendetta against CPU. We attack university land.

Please discuss if this is a reasonable plan. We would need a military plan to go with this.

	04-02-2004 01:57									#2
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sorry, it looks to me like we'd be going to fast.

	04-02-2004 01:59									#3
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what about about the production plans, won't they be polled?

	04-02-2004 02:07									#4
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You are exactly right t_ras. The war preparation - production side also needs to be polled. The reason I have not done the poll is that we haven't really had much discussion, unlike the dip part. Plus I still don't know if we are going to do it here or in another forum.

The reason that I'm shooting for 2160 also is because uni/CC would likely obtain DAP by then. We need to attack uni before they are able to really use this tech. Plus if we wait too long I'm sure CC will send some of its force to defend the univ. If we are going to a war, we need to do it quick and strong.

	04-02-2004 02:43									#5
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Exactly. We need to get to war before they get DAP. If we stall too long, we may come to the shores of CyCon and find that the skys are filled with doom.

	04-02-2004 03:36									#6
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I think the plan is good. Its great, actually.

But maybe its not fast ENOUGH. We have to switch our whole production to war. And I mean it. Those of you who are used to playing against the AI don't realise just how many units are needed for a PBEM war. We have to really go for them HARD and FAST, before they can get D:AP and stop us.

One turn may make the difference, really. Just one turn.

-Jam

	04-02-2004 03:56									#7
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Ok. How about 2159.

	04-02-2004 05:54									#8
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Ok. How about 2159.

I have not been able to download the save you did.
[Like many technical matters (such as polls) I need help.]

How many bioenhancement centers do we have building? Where?

Since they do not have DAP yet we should concentrate on making aircraft, choppers, and drop units in most of the cities.

We should make the choppers in the cities that have the bio centers (to make them tougher for the multiple attack). The Needlejets will be used for single attacks, scouting, and aerial blockades.

I think we can stick with wealth for a while. I think, for now, the trade off on more units, faster, outweighs having stronger units later.

Note: with wealth we will have Green units (disciplined in the cities with bio centers) and, with survival we would have commando units.

If we swap to a war setting then we will need to see what the Drones do. If they stick as a builder then they will start making stuff like tree farms like crazy and get a lot of cash and tech, while we hold off CyCon and get a lot of bases. We should ensure they share the Techs with us and we should be prepared, to give them some captured bases in return. If they go on a war footing too, then the tech rate stagnates for both of us while we divide the Uni/CyCon Empire. Maybe we should talk to them about this.

Once I download the next save I will see just how quickly we can make a good military.


Mead

	04-02-2004 07:28									#9
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Good plan. Is it verified that we are ABLE to follow it? I mean, weŽd have to pump out three to four units per base... Plus weŽd have to place them in attack position BEFORE declarin the vendetta.

We also need to work on the explaination for the downgrading of our relations to CyCon. They will know what weŽre aiming at when we cancel the pact (after getting the war techs)

	04-02-2004 07:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Micha Good plan. Is it verified that we are ABLE to follow it? I mean, weŽd have to pump out three to four units per base... Plus weŽd have to place them in attack position BEFORE declarin the vendetta.

No. It is not verified.

I will see what how quickly we can make a military after I download the save, when it becomes available.

Three or four units per base seems a little hopefu. l I was hoping for two, maybe three, before the war started. More units to follow during the war until the war winds up.

I just looked at the CyCon bases in 2155. It looks like they do not have much in the way of military, most has 1 armor, (that can change real quick) so a rather swift air power heavy attack (within 4-5 turns) could be decisive.

quote: We also need to work on the explaination for the downgrading of our relations to CyCon. They will know what weŽre aiming at when we cancel the pact (after getting the war techs)

We should tell them we are worried about their, not our, intentions. We should tell them that they should prove to us that they are not seeking a war before we reopen a Pact and let them see our weaknesses.

Also, (assuming that they are still at war with the Drones) we should say that we cannot be in a Pact with them when they are at war with the Drones.

Mead

	04-02-2004 08:20									#11
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I agree with the basic plan laid out, but I prefer the alternative timetable that would delay its implementation until we have defenses built up and perhaps an army ready to strike at the CyCon. Peace is our ally for as long as we can keep it, since we need time to build up our military forces.

	04-02-2004 09:14									#12
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I agree with Voltaire - we are about to enter a diplomatic game which could very well be our end. We should only impleament HongHu's plan when we are absolutely sure we can take any curveballs CyUni can throw at us. Remember, they may be able to pick up subtle signs that indicate our preparations for war.

Only when we are ready to fight must we start the fight.

	04-02-2004 09:25									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X I agree with Voltaire - we are about to enter a diplomatic game which could very well be our end. We should only impleament HongHu's plan when we are absolutely sure we can take any curveballs CyUni can throw at us. Remember, they may be able to pick up subtle signs that indicate our preparations for war. Only when we are ready to fight must we start the fight.

I agree.

We should seek to start the fight only when we are ready. On our terms.

I have no problem with playing nice to the AOE (Axis OF Evil) until we are ready to fight.

Hey, if they want to swear a Pact to serve us right now and give us all their Tech and ECs (plus a few bases) right now I would be among the first to accept that.

However, it looks like they are out to destroy both us and the Drones.

I will conceal our intentions. I will work to wait until the odds are best in our favor.


Mead

	04-02-2004 14:39									#14
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i think 2160 would be to soon.
as i've seen in citys, making units strong enough for war (ignoring the fact that we still dont have good enough defences) will take longer. we can get now about 2 units per base ,being blindly optimistic (which i hate to do) 3. and all the above is not considering we need an air-fleet, which will take longer.

	04-02-2004 17:16									#15
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If we leave it too long we'll be attacking units with AAA capabilty and 4-armour. CyUni have just increased their research speed four-fold. We can't win a building game. How many times have I said this?

We may have missed our oppotunity already.

-Jam

	04-02-2004 20:05									#16
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I can't stress how much I agree with Jamski. People time is of essense. Yes we can wait, but if we wait, we lose the advantage we now have, ie. being the only factions that have DAP and MMI. We need to use this advantage and destroy or at least delay their chance of getting even with us in tech.

I recommend people go to the Drones Embassy to see what they are planning.

Mead is right. Right now the CCs are busy with their new bases. If we don't act now, their reseach ability and production ability will increase exponentially and it will be too late for us to regret.

	04-02-2004 20:13									#17
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As for defense, we are the Hive. Our advantage is that we can build lots cheap units for defense purpose. If a base that is being attacked does not have good defense units, it can still last long by producing many cheap scouts. Plus, they are still far from us. As long as we watch the PEACE war closely we will have time to prepare.

The problem to me know is not how we should defend our own land. It is that we should start our own war in order to ensure that there will never be a war on our own land.

	04-02-2004 21:05									#18
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in this case we should begin making the air fleet immidiatly.

i do have some detailed production plans (at list for the comeing turn or two) , where would you like me to post it?

	04-02-2004 21:16									#19
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Why don't you open a new thread so that people can discuss there.

	04-02-2004 22:54									#20
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quote: The problem to me know is not how we should defend our own land. It is that we should start our own war in order to ensure that there will never be a war on our own land.

Words to live by.

-Jam

	05-02-2004 04:30									#21
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Agreed with comrade Jamski, thanks for reminding me to change the 'AI opponent' mentality. While I do think that we should try and hold off from attacking until we are ready....we should find out exactly how the Drones feel. Once we find that out, we should make a decision.

I would rather us take our air superiority advantage as far as it can take us before the CPU catches up....which won't be too far away. The sooner their sky is filled with Hiverian planes and choppers, the better in my opinion.

	05-02-2004 06:13									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski If we leave it too long we'll be attacking units with AAA capabilty and 4-armour. CyUni have just increased their research speed four-fold. ***

We can should, avoid this, if we act quickly and decisivly.

quote: We may have missed our oppotunity already. -Jam

No, we have not. But we will if we wait too long.

War by 2160.

Mead

	05-02-2004 10:08									#23
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By last turn the university was researching with a rate of 4 years. The CC was researching DAP. I can see this turn they would transfer all the prerequisite to the univ and univ will research DAP and complete it in 4 years, ie. 2160.

	05-02-2004 10:22									#24
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Jeez. What is their estimated industrial power? If that is the case, then we should definitely pump out planes and such for the invasion. I'm sure our industrial power is vastly superior to their own so by the time they get DAP, we should have, what, a 3:1 ratio over them?

At the very least, they'll have to wait a couple of turns just to get their first plane out...unless they have enough creds to rush-build it........can someone prove or disprove me?

	05-02-2004 13:35									#25
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They may crash a few crawlers to get the first planes built as prototypes all at once. Its a good trick. Then the other bases build shell noodles to upgrade to missiles or impact. We should do the same.

-Jam

	05-02-2004 19:55									#26
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How many ecs do we need for an upgrade?

	06-02-2004 02:57									#27
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Depends on what we upgrade to.

A 1-1-18 noodle as a basis?

Upgrade to a 4-1-18 or a 6-1-18?

High morale too?

?

-Jam

	06-02-2004 20:50									#28
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Where did we get 1-1-18? (And you claim you have opened the game. )

I'd say 1-1-10 to 6-1-10. Not sure about morale. Would that be a factor?

	07-02-2004 01:53									#29
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What am I thinking of?
Turbo Noodles exist only in my alpha.txt

-Jam

	07-02-2004 03:26									#30
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Ok but you didn't answer my question about the cost of upgrade. See this is how you are. I wonder how many things fall into your "somethings are better left unsaid" territory.