04-02-2004 02:10									#1
	Two bugs or just me? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok I encountered some issues that I want to share with you.
First is I have factories and coal plants in my cities and one good morning I built the Hoover Dam Project and got a hydro plant in each city. Now the freaky part was that the hydros didn't repalce my coal plants as they should have nor did they increase prod which is normal. But I was still getting the polution from the coal plants. When I soled polutution droped and not prod penality as there are hydros in place. Still I can built a coal plant if I wish weird!

The second thing was doesn't the stock exchance increase revenues by 50%? I built 3 in one turn and no change can't believe that all the incease went in corruption as the cities i'm talking are right next to the cap. hmmm Weird again!

	04-02-2004 02:27									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes you can still build coal planet or solar or nucs if you have the tech and met all requirements. That is the way it has been IIRC.

I find it strange, but what can you say?

Yes it provides a 50% tax increase. If you have no tax collected in that ciy, then you gain nothing.

	04-02-2004 02:30									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

there is a good reason to let you still build them.

What if your Hoover dam gets captured? Then your screwed. But if you build the power plants anyway (i wouldn't recommend building 'dirty' ones), you won't lose the boost when it does get captured. Thought that would defeat the purpose of building the hoover dam in the first place. I guess later in the game, instead of setting the city to 'wealth' you can build solar power plants ' just in case'.

	04-02-2004 02:37									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

My cities are all busy and rarely do wealth.
Nah the cities I'm talking about are the backbones of the economy

	04-02-2004 04:29									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

A similar situation happened to me.

Had Hoover Dam and factories in my major cities, rocking out the shields. No coal plants - never build them, the 60's child in me won't let me spew out all pollution.

Entremont was producing 100 shields per turn.

Discovered Ecology (or whatever the tech is called that lets you produce solar plants) and started building solar plants.

When Entremont built its solar plant, its production went up to ...(drum roll, please)... 100 shields per turn.

Couldn't see any increase in any of my other cities either.

I thought the effects of most city improvements were
cumulative, based on normal, non-augmented values. So if a city would normally produce 20 shields and had 1 50% improvement it would produce 30 shields, 2 50% improvements = 40 shields, 3 50% improvements = 50 shields, etc.

Am I mistaken? Not that that would be a first.

	04-02-2004 05:25									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

yes, you are mistaken

only ONE powerplant adds to the production and you can never have more than one powerplant. If you have the coal plant, and build the solar plant, your coal plant disappears.

If you have the hoover dam or a hyrdo plant, and build a solar plant, then there is still no change. Also, there is no reason to build a solar plant if you have a hydo plant, since both a clean. Its just that cities with rivers can build clean powerplants sooner.


And if you don't need a backup powerplant once you've build the hoover dam just incase, just right click on the coal plant and sell it.


Though its definitly not a bug.

	04-02-2004 08:36									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

One more thing about power plants. Nuclear plants give +100% to production while other plants provide just +50%. If you own the Hoover Dam and have a nuclear plant in one of your cities, the nuclear plant's production bonus takes precedence and you get +100% to production.

I don't know if this is the solution to your stock exchange question, but...
The three types of commercial buildings (stock exchanges, banks, and marketplaces) give +50% to the base amount of gold a city produces. The bonuses these buildings provide aren't cumulative with each other. For example: a city with none of the commercial buildings produces 10 gold each turn. If you add a marketplace to that city, it'll produce +5 gold for a total of 15 gold. If you then add a bank, the city will produce another +5 gold (for a total of 20 gold). Finally, a stock exchange will add another +5 gold for a grand total of 25 gold.

A lot of people seem to think the commercial improvements provide x150% to gold production, with the improvements being cumulative with each other, but that's not how it works.

	04-02-2004 08:47									#8
	Suffering from ads?

I'd add to Xorbon's post that the state of your research slider matters as well. Markets, banks, and stock exchanges increase the base amount of total commerce that is allocated to taxes by virtue of your sliders; libraries, universities, and research labs increase the base amount of total commerce that is allocated to science. If your science slider is at 80% and your entertainment slider is at 20% (leaving nothing for taxes), markets, banks, and stock exchanges won't increase your taxes at all!

Catt

	04-02-2004 09:13									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by MattPilot there is a good reason to let you still build them. What if your Hoover dam gets captured? Then your screwed. But if you build the power plants anyway (i wouldn't recommend building 'dirty' ones), you won't lose the boost when it does get captured. Thought that would defeat the purpose of building the hoover dam in the first place. I guess later in the game, instead of setting the city to 'wealth' you can build solar power plants ' just in case'.

A problem: you have to pay upkeep for any power plants you build. Plus it still produces pollution.

	04-02-2004 09:17									#10
	Remove this text

That is why I asked if they were netting any taxes in the first place. It can be a large or a small cities.

As to Hoover being lost, huh. Anyone ever lose Hoover in an SP game? I suppose it could happen, but it really is not a concern.

	04-02-2004 10:03									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

never lost a city in SP - and when i did, i quickly reloaded and made some changes losing a city 'was' a game breaker for me

@skywalker - its only a problem if you want it to be one. If you want a backup in place, you must obviously pay the upkeep costs. If not, just sell the old one.

	04-02-2004 13:38									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Losing a city is to be expected from time to time, you just have to learn to deal with it.

	04-02-2004 17:27									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

i know - but its so hard

everytime it happens it breaks my heart

	04-02-2004 20:53									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Xorbon I don't know if this is the solution to your stock exchange question, but... The three types of commercial buildings (stock exchanges, banks, and marketplaces) give +50% to the base amount of gold a city produces. The bonuses these buildings provide aren't cumulative with each other. For example: a city with none of the commercial buildings produces 10 gold each turn. If you add a marketplace to that city, it'll produce +5 gold for a total of 15 gold. If you then add a bank, the city will produce another +5 gold (for a total of 20 gold). Finally, a stock exchange will add another +5 gold for a grand total of 25 gold. A lot of people seem to think the commercial improvements provide x150% to gold production, with the improvements being cumulative with each other, but that's not how it works.

If it works like you say it does, then it really is a 150 % increase... 10 x 2.5 = 25... x + 0.5*x + 0.5*x + 0.5*x = 2.5x where x is the base amount of gold i.e a 150 % increase..

or am I missing something, it´s been some months since my last mathclass

Edit: I forgot a word

	04-02-2004 23:13									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Not only is losing a city something you have to put up with, occaqssionally, losing it at the end of the war is too. Better to lose a city or two than watch your empire crumble from revolts. You can always get it back later.

	04-02-2004 23:24									#16
	Remove this text

Loosing cities is bad, usualy if i'm in a loosing war I manage to survive around 10 turns. Strangely enought every time after 10 turns the AI seems willing to sign peace. So I sign peace even though I loose the war I get some small lump sum of around 40GP, which is weird. In the event of having to give cities. I have 7 of those in the desert of cize 1. They are empty and remote, got them as tribute from other civs, so i can always give those for compensation, they do nothing no troops or building, nothing.

Yeah Fatwreck and what a lot of people think is true, when you build the 3 improvements you do get 150% of the base gold production.

	05-02-2004 03:36									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think what Xorbon meant was that, using his example, after a marketplace is built, you get 15 gold. When you add in the bank, you only get a 50% bonus on the 10 base, not on the 15 current total (thus you get 20, not 22.5).

	05-02-2004 04:08									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You might be right, sorry Xorbon, oops i posted the wrong name in my previous post oooh well sorry about that too.

	05-02-2004 04:45									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

I don't think I wrote that last paragraph too clearly. The "x" is meant to be a "times" (i.e. multiplication) sign, not the variable "X".

	05-02-2004 21:19									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

yeah and that's how we understood it uuh i did