29-02-2004 04:23									#31
	Remove this text

Save has been played. Will be held until a ruling from mongoose is received

Report coming up soon

-MZ

	29-02-2004 04:44									#32
	450 AD - Turn Report Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

General

General

- Slider changed to 50% (5.5.0). (Gives us Edu in 5 turns instead of 7

Diplomacy

- CFC sends us 725g + World Map. We send 710g + World Map.
- Peace sent accepted to GCA (sorry, did this at the end and forgot to record it)


Military

Scouting

- Knight E_T moves to Silk Camp 2 (will go after barb camp)
- Knight Donegeal moves to BFC 8-7-7 (will go after barb camp)
- Knight TCG moves 2
- Knight Togas forts (to heal, will go after barb camp)

Military

- NM Arnelos moves 1-1-1 (will go south)
- NM notyoueither moves 4-1-4 (will go west)
- NM NuclearMercenary forts at Equilibrium 4
- MI Vlad skips turn on the Silk Colony
- MI BFI forts at Eq 2-1-1-1
- Knight bingo moves to Equilibrium 6-3-3
- Knights HTower, Vondrack fort at Chiquita 1-1-1
- Warrior not_panag skips at Equilibrium 3-3-3-3
- MI Hack moves 9-9-8 (will go towards new cities NE of AP)
- Knight Ennet forts at Elucidum Novum 3-3


Naval

- AIS Seeker moves 1-2-2 (going into lake)
- AIS Hunter moves 7-4-1 (going west as lookout)
- AIS Assassin moves 7-7-8


Economy

City Builds
- Incensity builds Library, starts building Courthouse (turn 1 of 9)
- Hispanica changed to Catapult, short rushed for 24 gold, then switched back to Courthouse.
- Big Bend builds Settler (renamed "BBA"), starts building Settler (turn 1 of 6 schedualled).

Workers

Screech & Sanchez - Road (done).
Yo & Slave Anarchy - Road (done).
Group of 3 (3) - Road (done).
Spike & Moosefart - Irrigate (done).
Rush & rah - Irrigated (done).
Lib & Slave Farb - moved 6-9-8 (to HoD 1).
Empress - moved 9.
Mark & Otto - moved 8-8.
LAN Party (4) - Mined.

Settlers

Settler PolyA - builds city ("Down Under") - sets build to Harbor and WF to 2.
Settler PolyB (going to site 14) - moved 4-2.
Settler HispA (going to site 12) - moved 4-1-4.
Settler KarinaA (going to site 13) - moved 4-7.
Settler NanaA (going to site 16)- moved 1-1-1.
Settler HoDA (going to site 25 - "Fish") - moved 3-3-2.
Settler BBA (new) - moved 4-4-1

Workforce

Apolyton - starting WF 4-6-8-13-16 & 1 Sci. NC. Lakeveiw - starting WF 5-13. NC.
Hallo Leute! - starting WF Sci. NC.
Mingapulco - changed WF to 3-5-6-7-9-18. (to work horse which was unused)
Chiquita - starting WF 1-6-8-13. NC.
Bananatopia - changed WF to 2-3-4-8-19.
Incensity - changed WF to 5-6-7-14-17.
Dominus - starting WF 1-2-6-8. NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-9-17-18-19. NC.
Equilibrium - starting WF 3-6. NC.
Hispanica - changed WF to 1-2-3-4-13-20.
Power of Victory - starting WF 2-3-11. NC.
Karina - starting WF 3-4-11-17. NC.
LuxInvicta - changed WF to 1-3-7-11. (to use a mined bonus grass)
Big Bend - changed WF to 1-3-4-10.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC
Apolyton Prime - starting WF 2-3-7. NC.
Enjoy Your WarWeariness - starting WF Sci. NC.
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-4-5-12-13. NC.
Elucidium Novem - starting WF 2-3-8. NC.
Silk Road - starting WF 19. NC.
Arcadia - changed WF to 7-16.
Zenophobia - starting WF 1-2. NC.
Solace - starting WF 8. NC.
Down Under - changed WF to 2.

Last edited by Master Zen on 01-03-2004 at 02:04

	29-02-2004 04:50									#33
	Pictures Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Note that we are ahead of CGN in the powergraph and are cutting into GWT's chunk also... ARISE APOLYTON AND MEET YOUR DESTINY!

	29-02-2004 05:17									#34
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The following pic is to be sent to miccofl showing dispositions of GWT troops in the area around our gifted cities:

	29-02-2004 06:02									#35
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Why is Apolyton Prime building a Granary?

It's going to shoot up to size 8 or 9 for the jump. At that size, it's better to Join Workers to it than use a Granary for growth.

I'll post my general thoughts about what we're doing with Granaries in another thread.


Dominae

	29-02-2004 16:12									#36
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Wait so you didn't disband Hallo Leute? Even though GCA can possibly attack it next turn?
Who decided that and where was it decided?

	29-02-2004 17:01									#37
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OPD, Hallo Leute can't be attacked by GCA next turn. we will always have one turn warning, as a possible horse will be spotted before it can attack.

However, EnjoyYourWW can be attacked by a GCA horse, if GCA is after GWT in turn order (I can't remember). That hill is roaded, and could be connected to the rest of GWT's territory. If they move out of the way, GCA could reach the city with a horse without us spotting them.

DeepO

Last edited by DeepO on 29-02-2004 at 17:15

	29-02-2004 17:35									#38
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I figure Leute can be attacked if GWT gift GCA "hi Guys" first which IMO opinion is certainly within the realms of possibility. Like you said EnjoyWW can also be attacked more easily.
Although I guess the cities were actually disbanded this turn and MZ posted a screen shot with them so that we could see all the units in and around the cities.

	29-02-2004 20:53									#39
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quote: Originally posted by OPD I figure Leute can be attacked if GWT gift GCA "hi Guys" first which IMO opinion is certainly within the realms of possibility. Like you said EnjoyWW can also be attacked more easily. Although I guess the cities were actually disbanded this turn and MZ posted a screen shot with them so that we could see all the units in and around the cities.

This is a good point.

However, it should be noted that the save has not yet been sent to CFC. Since we are awaiting a ruling by Mongoose on the WW and peace issue, it hasn't been sent.

We intended to replay the save precisely as before, but abandon Hallo Leute! if it was determined that the city could be relevant to the peace consideration.

Your point about GWT gifting Hi Guys! to GCA means we may now choose to abandon the city regardless of Mongoose's ruling.

Good catch.

	29-02-2004 22:22									#40
	Put an end to popups!

There are 3 tiles surrounding the hill near "Enjoy your War Weariness." None of them are roaded. That city is safe from at by GCA for at least one more turn.

"Hello Leute!" is in immediate danger since GWT will gift that city to GCA.

"Hello Leute!" must be disbanded this turn.

	29-02-2004 23:44									#41
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The plan is to send the turn along with the cities in order to continue delaying GWT, while also getting a ruling from mongoose requiring GCA to accept peace.

	01-03-2004 01:56									#42
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quote: Originally posted by OPD I figure Leute can be attacked if GWT gift GCA "hi Guys" first which IMO opinion is certainly within the realms of possibility. Like you said EnjoyWW can also be attacked more easily.

Sorry, missed that. You're right, of course... so GCA is after GWT in turn order? Otherwise we'll have one turn more.

DeepO

	01-03-2004 02:07									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Trip The plan is to send the turn along with the cities in order to continue delaying GWT, while also getting a ruling from mongoose requiring GCA to accept peace.

That's all fine and dandy except that we are leaving a city open to attack from GCA if we do not abandon "Hello Leute!"

I demand that we disband it instead of letting GCA capture it.

Tell me one good reason we should let GCA capture it?

	01-03-2004 02:12									#44
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Chances of GCA capturing it are very slim.

If GCA captures the city it will auto-raze, and Mongoose already made them accept peace, so them capturing the city won't affect whether or not we get peace.

	01-03-2004 02:19									#45
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Trip, GCA would have to accept peace first, then declare war to capture the city, so it does have an effect on if the accept peace or not. When the turn arrives for GCA they must do diplomacy first.

Let's say they "accept" peace. But then they see, because GWT gifted them "Hi Guys!", they can now capture/raze "Hello Leute!". Given that option, I can see mongoose ruling in favor of GCA not accepting peace because at the 5 tunr point they will have completed an act of war against Apolyton.

Let's not give them that option.

If you would suggest that GCA would first "accept" peace from Apolyton, then decalre war on us in order to capture/raze "Hello Leute!" then you have not been paying attention to Lucky's track record. That simply will not happen. Lucky will use this against us if it is at all possible.

Is it guaranteed that GWT will gift "Hi Guys!" to GCA? No, but it is likely.

Please vote in the poll.

	01-03-2004 02:31									#46
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I find it very unlikely GWT will give up its route of reinforcement to get one GCA unit through for one turn... assuming GCA even has a unit in that area.

	01-03-2004 03:05									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Trip The plan is to send the turn along with the cities in order to continue delaying GWT, while also getting a ruling from mongoose requiring GCA to accept peace.

Trip, I hate to be the one to point this out for you, but that city is no longer doing squat to delay GWT's slowmover stack from advancing.

That city is giving us +1 commerce per turn and serving as a point from which we can spy on GWT cities until the point that we abandon it. It's not doing much else anymore, the reason why GWT is going to let it stay around until GCA can attack it.

You know, though... if we can force peace with GCA this turn while the city is still in place, that would force GCA to re-declare war to take the city, giving us the negative WW bonus from GCA.

This all being said, I'd rather just abandon the city and be safe rather than potentially sorry.

	01-03-2004 03:09									#48
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Trip, I hate to be the one to point this out for you, but that city is no longer doing squat to delay GWT's slowmover stack from advancing.

Did you ever assume that GWT might be bringing up new units from their core?

	01-03-2004 03:11									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Trip The plan is to send the turn along with the cities in order to continue delaying GWT, while also getting a ruling from mongoose requiring GCA to accept peace.

Who decided this? And where was it decided and how can this possibly be the best thing to do?

This is just stupid. You may think there is only a small chance of it happening but I think it's alot more likely and even so if there is only a small chance of us being attacked that should still be enough. We need to stop playing these games with Lucky, he's going to look for any oppertunity to prolong the WW but in this instance we can make damn sure that he can't. I mean look in the FAM thread, he said GCA are about to attack 2 major objectives.

When GWT play their turn they'll be able to see the city still there so Lucky will know that he doesn't have to accept peace at the start of turn as he can attack during the turn. Mongoose and everyone else is tired of this cr@ap so why give it a chance to carry on.

Also the whole argument this is based on doesn't make sense. It is said that we should keep the cities to disrupt the GWT advance but then the argument against GWT gifting GCA the city is that it would disrupt their advance???????

You can't have your cake and eat it too, thinking we can keep cities on the same continent and still demand peace is unrealistic. Both cities should be disbanded so we can get on with things rather than continuing this WW cr@p.

	01-03-2004 03:25									#50
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Also the whole argument this is based on doesn't make sense. It is said that we should keep the cities to disrupt the GWT advance but then the argument against GWT gifting GCA the city is that it would disrupt their advance???????

Gifting the city completely blocks GWT's movement. Gifting the city would cost at least 2 turns of movement for any GWT units which might be heading south. Simply waiting for GCA to land a unit from that Galley and attack it next turn costs GWT 1 turn. In other words, unless GWT attacks the city they will lose time either way. However, how much time is lost will be what determines their course of action.

	01-03-2004 03:27									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos You know, though... if we can force peace with GCA this turn while the city is still in place, that would force GCA to re-declare war to take the city, giving us the negative WW bonus from GCA.

Why bother carrying on with this rubbish. IMO we need to forget about all this buisness with Lucky and get on with making our empire great. This whole forum is full of threads about this kind of cr@p with Lucky and other non game stuff like the GWT redo stuff or threads about re-organising the way things are done, whereas there are very few threads about things that are actually related to whats going on in the game.
If we loose this game it may very well be because we were messing around with irrelevant stuff or moaning about GCA when we should have been sorting our sh1t out.

I mean look at all the posts about reforming diplomacy, if all those posts were constructive ones or even comunications with others teams we'd be alot better off. But instead there's just a load more procedures and rules in place which are irrelevant as nothing much is going to get done on that front anyway. This is all too common these days, too much faff not enough action.

	01-03-2004 03:41									#52
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It is probable, that GWT wont gift their city to GCA.
And we have another turn to decide on "Hello Leute!" abandonment.

But I am with OPD. Lets not give GCA any chance for a reason to not give us peace....no matter how remote.

	01-03-2004 03:54									#53
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I'm with HE and OPD, enough of this already.

	01-03-2004 04:09									#54
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Disband it!! Get off the continent and lets not give Lucky another chance to whine and complain about us.

	01-03-2004 04:26									#55
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GWT gifting the city to GCA could have little or 0 effect on their rate of advance, assuming there is a GCA horse on one of the road tiles just behind it now.

1. GWT moves all its units down the main road and through the city. One would assume most of the slow movers are already past it, leaving the Ansar reserves just out of sight. They can easily get far beyond the point they would be in GCA's way.

2. GWT gifts city to GCA.

3. GCA accepts city, moves though it and takes our city from us, along with a fair chunck of gold from our treasury.

4. GCA gifts the city back to GWT.

GWT carries on...

I agree that we should stop screwing around.

	01-03-2004 06:09									#56
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Due to popular demand,

Game replayed, our two cities on the other continent have been disbanded.



-MZ

	01-03-2004 07:25									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Due to popular demand, Game replayed, our two cities on the other continent have been disbanded. -MZ

The right thing to do.

	01-03-2004 07:47									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Due to popular demand, Game replayed, our two cities on the other continent have been disbanded. -MZ

And that worm will STILL reject peace.

	01-03-2004 07:50									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov And that worm will STILL reject peace.

Mongoose has already made the ruling. And now Lucky can't use the excuse that we have cities on 'his' continent.

It will be nice to finally get peace from that idiot.