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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
If you have no right to expression, you can't advertise stuff or anything (though the government could allow it provisionally). |
Don't mistake free expression with not being allowed to advertize. The former is not necessary for the latter. In fact, advertizing is more effective when it cannot be countered by free expression.
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Under your definition, the USSR was capitalist - the "capitalist" (the government) got to use the means of production. |
The USSR did not generate a profit, which is a fundimental defining characterisitc of capitalism.
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And if the workers can't strike, it ISN'T CAPITALISM. That's just totalitarian. |
So you're saying capitalism didn't exist in the US 'till the 1930s? Because striking was illegal here until the 1930s. The right to strike is not a necessary feature of capitalism. For most of the history of capitalism, strikes and unions have been outlawed, unless you'd like to argue that capitalism has never existed, in which case I must send you to the corner, point, and make fun of you.
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Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:33
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I did 
quote:
There is a democratic government with federal sovereignty (though some bureacracy and legislative powers are delegated to regional governments). Governing power is split into executive, legislative, and judicial branches. The legislature passes laws subject to an executive veto, while the judiciary determines whether or not those laws are in conflict with a constitutional code. Essential liberties (voting and expression) are protected, and other liberties cannot be restricted without a compelling public interest. Fraud, in addition to normal laws (like no murder, or theft, or rape), is illegal, and one can be sued for contract violation. |
Basically, a democratic government where expression (and other liberties essential to a democracy), contract, and property are protected rights.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
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Specifically, capitalism is the mode of society whereby production is for exchange value, rather than use-value. In all hitherto existing societies, the primary mode of human production was for use value, i.e. producers made things to be used immediately or traded for other things to be used.
The revolutionary aspect of capitalism is that for the first time, the primary mode of production is making goods in order to sell them in order to realize a profit, i.e., to accumulate capital.
This requires private property and state enforcement of contracts. It does not require free expression. Capitalism existed first in Great Britain in the 18th Century, and we would not call that a place of free speech. Saying the wrong thing there could easiy land you in jail. Nor is the right to form unions and strike hallowed. When workers tried to form unions for their protection and strike, troops would be called in to put them back to work, killing a few of the more stubbrn ones if need be. Free labor isn't even necessary. Capitalists have been more than willing to use slave labor, as evidenced in the American South and Nazi Germany. Even in the last decade, Unical had slaves building a pipeline in Myanmar (Burma).
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06-02-2004 04:03
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