06-02-2004 00:23									#1
	What's a Bloodthirsty Barbarian To Do? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What’s a Bloodthirsty Barbarian To Do? [or]

Can These Fiends Be Saved?

ReNoob: Back to C3C after long layoff from Civ3 (i.e. when Vel’s Part III was new).

I decided to infest a continent with Jaguar Warriors, looking back to Vel’s thread: “Triple Threat – The Joys of Being a Bloodthirsty Barbarian.” I'm on a Pangea map, standard or large (I forget), on Regent , and started at the southeast coast of a blunt continental mass (think Africa without the taper). India started directly to my west (to their sorrow), with America across the bull neck of the "peninsula" (to theirs). I pruned India, pruned America, took two cities from the Inca when they intervened, and now virtually finished off the Indians (they have one size-one city that they snuck in north of the Americans). So the Americans are still in the way of my reaching the other civs (not for long, but they are in the way).

When I was done with the Indians the Americans still had four cities in the range 4-7 pop, plus some scattered little cities. I took two of the four last night, and will probably finish the other two off before proceeding against the next victim. Unfortunately, this allows the other civs to get even more of a tech lead. The leaders have Feudalism and I have no medieval techs (and the only tech the Americans have that I don't is The Republic, but I'm just not a Republican).

We shall see, here in the Fifth Century AD. I may be OK if I use my numerous jags like rats to nibble through their roads and trash their improvements. If I isolate major cities from luxuries it should be entertaining, and if I can isolate them from strategic resources, even better. If I can take two or three cities I can probably extort tech. I'm starting to send out swordsmen as they have more staying power than the speedy jags, and I've been using catapults to soften up the cities (of course they move regrettably slowly--the catapults, not the cities, except perhaps from the standpoint of the citizens).

It would be nice if I had some allies, or at least some friends, but everyone is mad at me. I don't know why; I'm nice if you're NOT a neighbor. I am building some marketplaces to have some cash for bribes and whatnot, but perhaps I should just crank out military units. I used my second MGL to rush the Forbidden Palace, so I am getting some production out of the core American cities (and I decided to leave my palace where it is, which may be silly). I was able to build the Heroic Epic, so I have hope of more MGLs. I even built the Statue of Zeus in a city that didn't have anything better to do (which will give me a handful of Ancient Cavalry and some culture points). I've been building temples in the newly-captured cities on the assumption that soon some might revert. [Whups! An ex-Incan city just flipped to Greece, the culture leader!] Perhaps I should just garrison with cheap units and keep a re-strike force nearby…but I’d rather not go to war with Greece. Now I told the Maya to get their troops out of my territory, so they declared war. They’ll have some trouble reaching me, though.

Anyway, I’m wondering if I’ve screwed this up hopelessly, or if the position is still salvageable (or in fact possibly quite strong). The numbers look pretty good right now, but the tech hole has me concerned. Here are the stats: 19% land, 35% pop, so I have a very strong population base (the next highest are the Iroquois at 18&18. My culture by city and civ is 452/984, where Cuzco is 645 and the Greeks are 1482 (only the cripples have lower civ, though the Iroquois are similar to my Aztecs). My score is 542 to the Iroquois 427, with the rest under 340 (but I don’t think score means much, does it?) My Power looks to be about 25% of the histogram, with the Iroquois about 20% and the Greeks about 15%. My treasure is 472(+29), and the largest expense is corruption followed by entertainment (I’m in Monarchy). I have 25 cities, the largest of which is an Eight. I control 3 lux but have no trade routes available with anyone. A couple each of Iron and Horse, still blind to Saltpeter. Army of 66 Jags, 9 Horse, 13 garrison Spears, 4 Sword, 6 Cats, and a couple of Ancient Cavalry (thanks to the one Wonder I built of the eleven in existence). 10 Aztec workers plus 26 captured workers. Nobody likes me, everybody hates me, guess I’ll go eat worms.

Saved game available.

-- HtL

	06-02-2004 02:24									#2
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It's definately not to late.

What your describing tech wise is exactly how I was on most Emperor level games with Civ III classic 1.29f that I went on to win.

	06-02-2004 04:40									#3
	Tired of ads?

Doesn't pillaging reduce the world's esteem of you? Perhaps that's why everyone hates you?

[ok]

	06-02-2004 05:59									#4
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Actually, I haven't pillaged a thing yet. My attacks thus far have been "conventional." You know how it goes: storm the walls, sack the city, enslave the able-bodied. With those victims, I had tech parity and military superiority. Going up against (say) the Iroquois, the fight will be more even...perhaps even foolish, as the MW can catch my Jags. -- HtL

	06-02-2004 06:00									#5
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Here is the scoop on AI attitude.

Attachment: attitude.txt
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).

	06-02-2004 08:27									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Here is the scoop on AI attitude.

Thanks! Coincidentally, I had glanced at Bamspeedy's article last night, but I haven't read it with intent to absorb. Now what do you think about the strategic and operational situation? Perhaps you feel that the attitude of the other Civs is in fact the most critical aspect of the game. [If they all attack me, it is for sure! ]

	06-02-2004 09:10									#7
	Tired of ads?

Don't listen to me on the attitude part as I play a devil may care style. I mostly do not care what their attitude is as I don't trade much. I soon find myself having them all mad and they stay that way.
I normally do not go out of my way to stir them up, but I did in my current game. Make peace and break it immedialtely. I stayed in despotism so I do not have to deal with ww.

	11-02-2004 03:52									#8
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The bloodthirsty barbarians seem to be coming along in fine style, and the gods have been pleased by many, many sacrifices. The neighbors were less pleased, but they're all dead now. ...and not all by my hand.

As is so often the case, once I survived the early game and made the transition to the mid-game, the Aztec position grew into a juggernaut. I have had research at zero since the very early game [a *shocking* change from my usual style], and all my tech has been beaten out of someone else (or traded for using bruised techs).

I've now reached about 1500 AD, mangled the Indians and the Americans (whose lone city was grabbed by the Greeks), then did oscillating war among the Iroquois, the Greeks, and the Incas. The second sweep took the capitals of all three, and all their wonders. Drove the Iroquois off the Pangea entirely.

So I'm approaching a Domination win, with over 67% of the population, but with land area in the upper 50s somewhere. This bodes ill for my polite neighbors...