06-02-2004 03:55									#1
	Research Points Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The whole time I assumed it didn't matter where research points came from, the total of research points earned across your empire (or whatever ) counts toward your research efforts.

If so, what's so big deal about having a super science city? What are strageties used to speed up researching?

	06-02-2004 04:13									#2
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Many of the Facilities and SP's that improve research are cumulative, so you get a little more bang for your buck if they are concentrated rather than split up. Also, your HQ does not suffer from inefficiency deductions, so it is often a research hub (nearby bases are relatively efficient too) and a likely place to concentrate research.

There's no particular secret to speeding up the research AFAIK; it's a function of your priorities, as evidenced by your Energy Production, Facilities, SE's and SP's. Oh, and you can beg, buy, borrow or steal it too.

	06-02-2004 06:15									#3
	Re: Research Points Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DataAeolus The whole time I assumed it didn't matter where research points came from, the total of research points earned across your empire (or whatever ) counts toward your research efforts. If so, what's so big deal about having a super science city? What are strageties used to speed up researching?

Certain base facilities and SPs enhance your lab output at the base they are located.


Consider:

a 50/0/50 Social Engineering setting.

A base that has 20 of energy will, before modifiers, make 10 lab research points.

Now add a few of these enhancers:

Network Node: 50% bonus to Labs
Research Hospital: 50% bonus to Labs
Nano Hospital: 50% bonus to Labs
Fusion Lab: 50% bonus to Labs
Supercollider SP: 100% bonus to Labs
Theory of Everything (TOE) SP: 100% bonus to Labs
Network Backbone SP: variable but huge bonus to Labs

works out to:

10 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 x 2 x (some big number) = at least 202.5 lab points (before even counting the Network backbone bonus). Works like compound interest.

If you work to ensure this Super Science City (SSC) has even more raw enery to start with, say 200 verses 20, you will get at least 2025 lab points.

You usually also place a lot of economy (such as tree farms) multipliers at these bases to get a bigger cash bonus too.

The whole point is concentrating these enhancenments in just one or a couple of base is better than sprinkling these facilities throughout your empire.

Concentrate these facilites at a core 'safe' base that is either the HQ base or not too far away (to minimize inefficiency losses), and protect the base (and its crawler/trawler park) very well.


Mead

	06-02-2004 12:05									#4
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Actually, it doesn't work that way. Here's how it works:

Get energy allocated to science
Add specialist labs
Sum together all the bonuses from normal buildings that add to labs (net node, research hospital, etc) and multiply by that number
Sum together all the bonuses from SPs that add to labs (Supercollider, ToE) and multiply by that number

I don't know where the network backbone and losses from low efficiency combined with unbalanced energy/labs are considered.

As an example, take a base with 50/0/50 and 20 energy after inefficiency. This base also has two engineers, a net node, a research hospital, a fusion lab, the Supercollider, and the ToE

10 goes to labs
+4 to labs from engineers -> 14 labs
1 + .5 (net node) + .5 (research hospital) + .5 (fusion lab) = 2.5
14 labs * 2.5 = 35 labs
1 + 1 (supercollider) + 1 (ToE) = 3
35 labs * 3 = 105 labs


Another advantage of concentrating +labs facilities is that each point of energy crawled goes further.

	06-02-2004 15:48									#5
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I knew that bonuses were added, not multiplied, but I hadn't realized facilities and SPs were added separately, then multiplied together. Very cool.

	06-02-2004 20:10									#6
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One slight change to you post Chaos,

Innefficiency due to lab/econ split get factored in as well sometime after the summation of energy to labs and specialists. It doesn't matter really where it happens as communitve (or is it assocaitive, I forget) property basic math will result in the same answer.

So to slightly modify your example:


Take a base with 70/0/30 split yielding a 8% penalty to labs due to less than paradigm efficiency and 20 energy after raw energy inefficiency. This base also has two engineers, a net node, a research hospital, a fusion lab, the Supercollider, and the ToE

14 goes to labs
+4 to labs from engineers -> 18 labs
1 + .5 (net node) + .5 (research hospital) + .5 (fusion lab) = 2.5
18 labs * 2.5 = 45 labs
1 + 1 (supercollider) + 1 (ToE) = 3
45 labs * 3 = 135 labs

Less 8%

124 labs

	06-02-2004 21:37									#7
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I seemed to remember that inefficiency penalty doesn't apply to the specialists? So would your example is actually:

70%*20*(1-8%) = 13 labs
13 goes to labs
+4 to labs from engineers -> 17 labs
1 + .5 (net node) + .5 (research hospital) + .5 (fusion lab) = 2.5
17 labs * 2.5 = 42 labs
1 + 1 (supercollider) + 1 (ToE) = 3
42 labs * 3 = 126 labs

Is this right?

	06-02-2004 22:42									#8
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Thanks for taking your time to clear this up.

	06-02-2004 23:14									#9
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu I seemed to remember that inefficiency penalty doesn't apply to the specialists? So would your example is actually: 70%*20*(1-8%) = 13 labs 13 goes to labs +4 to labs from engineers -> 17 labs 1 + .5 (net node) + .5 (research hospital) + .5 (fusion lab) = 2.5 17 labs * 2.5 = 42 labs 1 + 1 (supercollider) + 1 (ToE) = 3 42 labs * 3 = 126 labs Is this right?

Nope. There are two levels of ineffiency. One that causes bases to lose raw energy and one that due to a inequitable split of lab/econ causes lost labs and/or econ.

The first form of effiency loss allows work around by using specialists. An all specialist base witha -3 efficiency(?) loses all its raw energy but gains back lab or econ points from specialists.

If running a 50/0/50 split all those points remain and are subject to the modifiers. If runnning something other than 50/0/50 say like a 30/0/70 split then the labs and/or econ are subject to the 2nd form of penalty even if they come from specialists.

	06-02-2004 23:23									#10
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Ahh I see. Thanks!

	07-02-2004 07:02									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory Actually, it doesn't work that way. Here's how it works: ***

Yes.

I think he is correct.

My numbers are a little too aggressive.

The whole point is that combining as many lab and energy facilities in one or two bases and combining them with a large amount of energy (from energy parks plus from a few boreholes) is a lot better than sprinkling these facilities and SPs throughout your empire.


Mead