07-03-2001 04:58									#1
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no builds for anyone only chance is that SnowFire has colonized Swe
spring results due before I leave for break saturday morning.

UNA (WarVoid)
F Ire -> Nao (move fails)
F Nwg -> Arc (move fails)
F Nth S A Nor
A Nor Hold
A Hol Hold
A Edi Hold
A Yor Hold
A Orb Hold

Aquaticans (Iain Lindley)
F Bal S A ORB-Swe
A ORB-Swe (move fails)
F Pru S F Bal
A Den S A ORB-Swe (support cut)
A Ham S A Den
A Hun S A Cro
A Slo S A Hun
A Aus S A Hun
A Cro S A Hun
A Bos S A Cro
A Ven S A Cro


Laguzans (SnowFire)
F Arc->Nwg (move fails)
A Orb->Swe (move fails)
A Orb->Den (move fails)
A Orb H
F Swe-Nor (move fails)
A Lap S F Swe-Nor
A Fin S A Orb-Swe
F GoB COL Swe
A Est S A Lat
A Lat S A Bie
A Mos S A Bie
A CRP S A Bie
A Bie S A Pod
A Kie S A Pod
A Ode S A Pod
A Mol S A Pod
A Rum S A Pod
A Pod S A Bie
A Ser S A Rum
A Alb S A Ser
A Mac S A Ser
F Adr S F Ion
F Ion S F LBS
F LBS S F ESA->Lib
F ESA->Lib (move fails)
F EME S F LBS
F Aeg S F Ion

Protectors (Victor G.)
A WSA S F Lib
A Alg-ORB
A ORB-Tun
F Tun-Alg
F Lin S F Mal
F Tys S F Mal
F Nap S F Apu
A Rom S F Apu
F Apu S Aquatican A Ven
A Lyon S A Mar
A Mar S A Lyon
A Ice H
A ORB H

Federation (Defiant)
CZE S KRA
KRA S WAR
WAR S LIT
GDA S LIT
LIT S WAR

	07-03-2001 08:16									#2
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I played:

A Alg-ORB
F Tun-Alg
A ORB-Tun

so Alg should be a fleet, and Tun an army.

	07-03-2001 09:25									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, now that my desperate little play for Norway has failed, I'm willing to talk about a draw, since it seems I won't be advancing any more.

I'm perfectly willing to have a draw. The only thing is, the draw is a bit big at the moment... 5 players is a lot to share it with. So I'll agree to the draw as soon as Iain takes Defiant out of the game. Don't get me wrong, Defiant's played a great game so far, but isn't a 4-way draw much better than a 5-way draw? Besides, there's not really much that Defiant can do to stop it now. Just as there wasn't much I could do in Rocky Road when Monk, Boshko, and Mao decided that a three-way draw was better than a 4-way draw .

Lest you worry, I cannot get enough centers to win through Defiant's centers, even if he goes nuts and decides to throw all his centers to me. Also there is a very easy stalemate line to maintain behind the lines. But if Iain wants them, he can have all of Defiant's territory right now, I'll just sit back and support myself and cut some supports to help out.

Until the Federation is eliminated, no draw.

	07-03-2001 18:00									#4
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Well, you just became #1 boy on my hitlist, why does everybody have to go after Defiant, you are talking a difference of .2 > .25

	08-03-2001 01:24									#5
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Snowie,
Nice try, do you see what he is doing, Iain. Sure, Iain attack Defiant help me to break him down and then we will draw, RIGHT! Iain, you know him, he will continue on right threw me to you and onward to solo, lets keep our united defense and force the draw.

	08-03-2001 05:31									#6
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I have to say I agree completely with Defiant here. I wouldn't even consider it unless you move into a position where a stab was totally impossible. And that isn't going to happen.

DRAW.

	08-03-2001 06:44									#7
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I agree with Lindley. Defiant has held out damn good for this game. It was a great game, lots of fun and with some really interesting twists. But it's come to a complete stalemate.

DRAW.

	08-03-2001 06:55									#8
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As much as I would like a 4 way draw myself, I like our nice stalemate line more... if Defiant were to agree to a four way draw without himself, I'd be all for it, but I don't think he's going to do that, and I don't blame him. Sorry... 5 way, or some really long pointless war.

	08-03-2001 08:41									#9
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5 way draw works for me, or it can become a very long game, I vote draw

	08-03-2001 11:15									#10
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Yeesh, are you guys going to force me to draw out the stalemate line for you? Again, I CANNOT SOLO anymore. I'd like to, yes, but it ain't happening. I need 8 SC's to solo, I believe. Even if some kind of disaster happened and I took over Defiant's entire territory, I'd only get 5 more. And I already said, Iain, you can have all of Defiant's SCs if you want. You can then hold the same stalemate line that Defiant holds right now. However, if I was stupid and perfidious, and I did take Defiant's SC's without you getting them, assuming you could at least hold onto CZE, a very easy stalemate line presents itself behind PRU, SIL, CZE, SLO, and the same way it is now down south.

I'm offering you a better draw for free. I don't care if it's only from 1/5 to 1/4, it's better. This is just my philosophy now, but as far as I'm concerned, you're obligated to play the best game for your country you can. This is risk-free, guys. I'll even submit my orders in advance on the thread if you want to check my sincere intentions.

Yes, Defiant has played a pretty good game, as I said before. But that's irrelevant. We've all played very good games that we just happened to lose in. I'm telling you, I'm not agreeing to a draw until there are only 4 players left. I recommend you move in on Defiant, Iain, or this is going to be a very loooooong game.

	08-03-2001 18:30									#11
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Snowfire,
Why are you being so obstinent(sp), most if not all of the other players said they would draw, is this a personal against me, you are the only one calling for the game to continue and for what purpose, just to knock one more player out of the game, if this is the case, fine, I will concede to a draw to the other four players, I'm not going to put them through having to submit long term orders just so you can knock one more out, if possible.

I concede to a four way draw of the others. It's been fun but let it end.

	08-03-2001 18:35									#12
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cancel
[This message has been edited by Defiant (edited March 08, 2001).]

	09-03-2001 03:39									#13
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Erm... no, as I said before, this is not personal, Defiant. What would I have against you?

If Coug, Mao, or RUFFHAUS had still been in the game holding Scandavia, I would have demanded their demise as well. And if you had been playing the Aquaticans and Iain the Federation, I would have asked for Iain's demise. I'm doing this because I think I can get a better ending to the game for my side then agreeing to a draw immediately would.

I don't want you to concede unless you do so based on the game's situation. It would be a hollow victory (well, draw) indeed if you only conceded due to pressure for the game to end.

That being said, since Iain could crush you like a bug (if he wants to get a bigger part of the draw), I would have no problem with you conceding because of that reason.

against me, you are the only one calling for the game to continue

That would be because I'm in the best position so far.

	10-03-2001 23:33									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

*waits in the background until a consensus is reached*
But SnowFire does have a point, we did exactly the same thing to him in RR Dip

	11-03-2001 23:40									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I still say DRAW!

	12-03-2001 00:05									#16
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Well I vote for any and all draws. What defiant and Snowfire want is their business, I will not become involved. I just see this game going nowhere fast, so really I guess that leaves it up to Iain to decide what happens with Defiant, and Iain doesn't want to stab, we're not getting any type of 4 way draw any time soon.