07-02-2004 00:14									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Can we ask him to send it again, then? I can't help it, I'm curious.

-Arrian

	07-02-2004 00:22									#32
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Who gives a crap about GWT being pissed if and when they find out it happened. They slapped us in the face by helping CGA (and have continued to do so by supporting them with the WW expoit). Lets do it, and help them as much as possible. And, I bring this up again, lets save ourselves some money by loaning CGN a good portion of or Cats. Make a deal, something like 1 gpt per cat + free screenshots of their locations for say 10 turns and renegotiate after that. Add in stipulations that they pay us whatever it cost to do a 100% rush of a cat for each cat they loose. Give them excess gold to help rush things. If we make a return payment plan in gpt, we could just about turn CGN into our big *****. (All payments could be made payable after the war if needed) This is just a few ideas. If we are going to pull ahead of both these guys we are going to need CGN to survive and to maintain a balance on that continent. This is a GRAND OPPERTUNITY! Lets not let it pass us by!

	07-02-2004 00:30									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The turn order is suitable. ie
CGN->Poly->CFC->GWT

CGN gifts, we accept (which teleports), we abandon before GWT can attack.

Do it!

	07-02-2004 00:50									#34
	Remove this text

Definitely do it.

I am not against a simple unit warp. Also, since there is really no other way to offer tangiable support to CGN, I think we should think of perhaps helping finance their war effort.

	07-02-2004 01:28									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Oh, and yeah, at this point, especially given CGN's odd pillaging of their own roads prior to retreat, I say we do it. HOWEVER, I really think they need some military advice. I'm not the best military mind here at 'poly by any stretch, but it sure seems to me they are mismanaging this war. Perhaps we say something like "sure, we'll take Boston for the unit warp, but if we do that, will you guys maybe listen to some friendly advice?"

I suggested they pull back, giving them time to build/upgrade Muskets after finishing GP and hooking up saltpeter in addition to other military advice. However, in the end they didn't take my suggestion, so they're responsible for what happens to them.

	07-02-2004 01:32									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Heck, the moral highground in this game became irrelevant a long time ago. Do it

Sigh! He's right unfortunately. GWT set the precedent already by allowing the GCA warp and Mongoose allowed it. This is no different than what they did (actually less).

Do it and then trash the city!!! But I still hate that the moral high ground was lost and it's coming down to game exploits

	07-02-2004 01:39									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by donegeal Who gives a crap about GWT being pissed if and when they find out it happened. They slapped us in the face by helping CGA (and have continued to do so by supporting them with the WW expoit). Lets do it, and help them as much as possible. And, I bring this up again, lets save ourselves some money by loaning CGN a good portion of or Cats. Make a deal, something like 1 gpt per cat + free screenshots of their locations for say 10 turns and renegotiate after that. Add in stipulations that they pay us whatever it cost to do a 100% rush of a cat for each cat they loose. Give them excess gold to help rush things. If we make a return payment plan in gpt, we could just about turn CGN into our big *****. (All payments could be made payable after the war if needed) This is just a few ideas. If we are going to pull ahead of both these guys we are going to need CGN to survive and to maintain a balance on that continent. This is a GRAND OPPERTUNITY! Lets not let it pass us by!

While this is a beautiful plan in theory, I don't think we can become so one-sided in this conflict before we know what will happen. If CGN routs GWT's army then CGN owes us a lot of gold and we either a) give up the gold they owe us and attack them or otherwise try to limit their power, or we can b) let them run over GWT, completely disrupting the balance of power on this continent.

A more limited loan plan may benefit us more, with everything based on lump sum payments due by a certain date (where we can be sure CGN wouldn't have ran over GWT by then) rather than GPT ones. That way, we can get our gold instantly, then turn right back around and attack/embargo/whatever CGN and help GWT out.

	07-02-2004 02:38									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Heck, the moral highground in this game became irrelevant a long time ago.

Actually, it was just a few weeks ago that a majority of our team wanted to keep the "moral" highground by not allowing ourselves to use tactics such as friendly GA-triggering, Palace-jumping, and unit teleporting. This, despite the official rulings that these "exploits" are allowed. A bunch of you are singing a quite different tune now. I guess we're not "better than that" after all...


Dominae

	07-02-2004 03:07									#39
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Dominae I guess we're not "better than that" after all...

You're probably right. I guess that's why I'm beginning to lose my taste for this game. It's no longer my first destination when logging on to 'Poly. I'll probably still follow the game though.

I guess it's because this game is the prototype and none of these bugs and exploits were banned beforehand (since they weren't known) that's causing the problems. I just have this feeling that the more the other teams use the WW and nation-warping and fort-all exploits, the more we'll start to use them and it's going to become a game of who can use them the best.

	07-02-2004 03:20									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

How many cities does CGN plan on abandoning? Abandoning your cities before they attack only guarantees one thing, that the city will be destroyed. T

The tactic CGN employed almost requires us to do this. My main concern is that CGA will use this to state "they can accept another city at any time" to try to claim why they should remain at war with us indefinitely. Hopefully Mongoose wont by this that force peace once the Galley and spear are gone.

	07-02-2004 03:33									#41
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quote: Originally posted by CiverDan My main concern is that CGA will use this to state "they can accept another city at any time" to try to claim why they should remain at war with us indefinitely. Hopefully Mongoose wont by this that force peace once the Galley and spear are gone.

how exactly do we explain this point away? Other than trying to pretend it didn't happen via us.

	07-02-2004 04:17									#42
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'm not sure how I feel about this now.

I'm very much against using exploits (and I fully believe this is a huge one) intentionally.

However, I also feel strongly that GCA has cheated against us both openly and not so openly (reloads). And I feel that GWT is also abusing exploits for their advantage.

I dont think two wrongs make a right though......


On the other hand, Im pretty pissed off at how all this is going. This game has ZERO integrity anymore and any winner that comes out of this will mean SQUAT. Part of the blame for this is Mongoose if he approved the teleport stunt.



I think my vote is do it, but don't try to hide it. If we do it openly, then in my mind its not so much an exploit/cheat but a testiment to how little this game means now.

Oh and my final comment is I no longer personally care as much about seeing Apolyton win this as GWT and GCA not win this as sad as that is.

Oh and my last comment is I fully support any and all loans/gifts and other traditional sources of aid to CGN even if it comes back to haunt us when CGN wins the game. The only catch, they promise to kick the living crap out of GCA and lucky before they even consider coming our way :P Heck at that point, id be tempted to withdraw from this game and declare joint victory in favor of moving on to the conquests ISDG which hopefully goes better than this one.

	07-02-2004 04:55									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

while i voted no, I accept the decision of the majority.

	07-02-2004 06:04									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I vote yes - I think that we need to help out CGN as much as possible - even if it means that it leads to their victory in the game.

After the tactics and attitude that GCA has had, and as GWT has helped them a lot - and been very aggressive and unreasonable throughout the game, I don't want GWT and GCA winning this war - or this game ... their being on the losing side in the game might bring a halt to such unsavory tactics and attitudes.

	07-02-2004 16:41									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

btw, I share Arrian's opinion that despite good odds on paper, a gut feeling tells me GWT is just far more competent militarily. I mean, those guys trashed Firaxis without iron...

Plus, I look at CGN's land and figure that if I had played with that start I'd have a gazillion cities. They might be in first place score-wise but frankly, I don't think they are the better team around here.

	07-02-2004 20:59									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Do it.

	08-02-2004 03:28									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I still don't know how to vote on this issue. If it was just GWT and CGN, I would say that we have done as much as we could and go on from there. But GWT has interveined in our war against GCA and now has them as their lapdog and supports them against us, so we almost HAVE to make sure that we intervean in their conflict.

E_T

	09-02-2004 13:43									#48
	Got spare money?

Go ask Mongoose what his point of view on unit teleporting is. If he's OK with it, accept Boston and play along with CGN. If not, ask him to remove GCA from the game :-)

	09-02-2004 21:49									#49
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mogoose Ok'ed GCA teleportation to the gifted GWT cities.

	09-02-2004 22:02									#50
	Put an end to popups!

mongoose has made himself irrelevant, through his action and inaction. We don't owe him any explanation or notice, nor do we owe any other team's anything.

	10-02-2004 01:30									#51
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This poll has passed and is now considered law.