09-02-2004 02:40									#1
	Turn 2156 Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I've done the turn. I'm starting a new thread so that the thread Mead started can be seperated out for the parallel turn.

Military
I'm producing 3 drop 1-3-1, 1 drop 1-1-2, and 3 drop defense prob. Roko is prototype the chopper (fit to let the former head of CMC do it isn't it). I cashed in a crawler so that it will be done the next turn. In addition I've been building 4 more choppers and 1 noodles I think. Right now it says that it needs 3 turns to be done but after the prototype they will be done in turn 2158. There will be a few bases such as Roko and Kody free to build more choppers next turn. The eastern cities are building 1-3-1 garrisons and they all have a defense probe there I believe. New Maxico after the 1-3-1 garrison I'd like to build a probe foil so that we can try get infiltration from CCs (since we ended our pact this is going to be necessary). Franky and Kody are building a new 1-1-1 scout for police purpose.

Rush production
I have not rushed a lot this turn. Only rushed in the bases that are going to finish the next turn anyway to ensure the 10 min carry over. This way the next production will be faster.

Dip front
Did not accept uni pact, ended CC pact. Did not accepted PEACE offer since we don't want all the techs they are offering.

Teraforming
I'm building about 6 boreholes, 3 of them will be done in 3 or 4 turns others may take longer. Other formers are still working on condensors, mines and forest.

I will post the save before end turn and screen shots for base production in the next posts.

[edit] I can't count.

Last edited by Snowflake on 09-02-2004 at 10:38

	09-02-2004 02:47									#2
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The save before end turn:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Ho...DG-Hive2156.SAV

	09-02-2004 02:49									#3
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Base production:



[Edit] This screenshot was taken before I cashed in the crawler so it still says 2 turn to finish the prototype.

Last edited by Snowflake on 09-02-2004 at 02:54

	09-02-2004 02:51									#4
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More:

	09-02-2004 02:53									#5
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Our research rate has suffered from the military production. It lowered from 3 turn to 5 turn. However I expect it will pick up again around 2160 when we do not have to build so many militaries and when we finally have some boreholes around.

	09-02-2004 03:08									#6
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Oh and I'm sending the PEACE 50 ecs.

	09-02-2004 03:23									#7
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As you can tell from my posts in the other thread I am suggesting a little more aggressive play.

I can see the screenshots, but cannot download your save.

Things I like about your turn.

I like the boreholes, can't complain about them.

I like the 1-3-1 units that will be used for invasion. They combined with aerospac centers and other bonuses should make them more survivable and any AOE air attack more expensive.

Not accepting Uni Pact and ending CyCon pact was good.

Not accepting Peace pact this turn was good, I think they will last at least one more turn.


Things I don't like.

I would prefer spending less on a static defense and more on an active offense.


Your turn has given us, and AOE, more time to build up the militaries. Let's use the next turn to enhance our manufacture of military and launch a strong invasion the following year. I feel time is definitely on the side of the AOE. The sooner we take the Uni bases (industry and tech rate) away from AOE the better.


Mead

	09-02-2004 03:49									#8
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here's my sugestion:

first of all my filosofy is to build light units and as much as i can.
spending for this all my resources (eather energy our citys), so i can "wash" the enemy with a large number of units.
if you are patient enough enemy will eventualy sucumb to supirior production rate. spetialy if his is lower and he keeps on building strong defensive units.thus tryed to use as much production power as i could for military units.
some citys are useless becouse of drones and they are building crawlers, do with them whatever you want.
i rushed too prototypes so we can finish all in max. 3 turns.
it left us without money but it will be a big rush to all prduction.
at this speed will be quickly making a grate army.
i also didnt use defenders, as i said, better build lot of light units.

	09-02-2004 05:53									#10
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Piccies don't work

Like t_ras and mead said, I'd like to see more 6-1-2 and 6-1-1 units than 1-3-1. Attack is king in SMAC. Having said that, why are we building mineral expensive units fresh and not upgrading the cheaper shell units? We save loads by building a 2-1-8 and upgrading to a 6-1-8, as opposed to rushing the 6-1-8.

-Jam

	09-02-2004 06:27									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Piccies don't work Like t_ras and mead said, I'd like to see more 6-1-2 and 6-1-1 units than 1-3-1. Attack is king in SMAC. Having said that, why are we building mineral expensive units fresh and not upgrading the cheaper shell units? We save loads by building a 2-1-8 and upgrading to a 6-1-8, as opposed to rushing the 6-1-8. -Jam

Well, let's have a discussion now before we do the next turn as to how we want to proceed.

This will mean that everyone who wants a say in how the turn will be played will have to be attentive and get their input in while there is still time to decide how to proceed.

I suggest that next turn, before the turnplayer acts, we all, all who want input, look at the turn and then propose how to proceed.

I looked at the turn very early on and offered my opinions to the turnplayer.

If we want to make a group decision then let's start the discussion now.

I advocate a more aggressive approach.
Jamski, you and t_ras do to. I have not heard from anyone else yet.

You all have seen what I intend to do militarily. I was pretty specific. The turnplayer was under no obliigation to do what I suggested. I think she incorporated some of it. She did what she, as turnplayer, felt was best. She played a good turn.

I will refine my suggestions for our next turn. We all can then consider my suggestions and analysis, as well as everyone else's suggestions and analysis and jointly decide on a course of action that they turnplayer will do.


Please note that this will require a fast response time, as well as a fair amount of work on each players part.




Mead


PS

What is a 6-1-8? Can we make them now?

	09-02-2004 09:33									#12
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Thanks guys for all the good feedbacks. I'll see if I could do some changes tonight.

One note, about upgrade. I didn't get the feedback I needed (the cost of upgrade) so didn't want to risk doing it without the right info.

	09-02-2004 10:12									#13
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Ok I don't think we can do any sooner than 2159. The prototype has to complete 2157. If we don't want to do multiple prototypes that means other choppers can only be available 2158. Add travel time it will be 2159. What did I do wrong? If somebody can give me an answer then I'll try to improve it tonight. I won't be able to access the turn tomorrow so somebody else has to press the end turn and post it. I would prefer this than I post it tonight. Comrade Mead, would you be able to do it?

	09-02-2004 10:13									#14
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Other things to do tomorrow morning: PM PEACE and CCs. I will try make a draft tomorrow and post before the embassadors sending them out. If somebody has time earlier than I do, please feel free to do the drafts for discussion. Thanks!

	09-02-2004 10:21									#15
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Plan for next turn if I don't change anything tonight:

The five best bases among Kody, Roko, Oct, Mead, New mexico, Jamski, Dacole and Franky will build 6-1-12 choppers and be rushed so that they can come out 2158. The other three will build 1 drop rover and perhaps crawlers or something else. If I get the info about upgrade cost then maybe they will be building 1-1-12 choppers and in 2158 do workshop upgrade before sending them to the attacking position.

Enigma is building a rec tank. Not sure if this is the best choice. Any suggestion?

Last edited by Snowflake on 09-02-2004 at 10:39

	09-02-2004 12:28									#16
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Ok. Here I'm using the new upload service. Hopefully somebody can download from here.

Hive 2156 Before End Turn

I have not made many changes other than taking the 50ec back from PEACE seeing that we will really be needing money. (Didn't have time also didn't have enough info.) If somebody knows that we will have enough money for upgrading then I suggest change all the missle choppers other than the prototype to 1-1-12. Then next turn 2157 we will be able to mass upgrade them and transport them. Turn 2158 there will be 5 choppers ready if we want to attack. The only reason I have not done it is that I do not know how much money we will need to upgrade. Say if we need for example 60 ecs for a chopper then 5 choppers means 300 ecs. We won't have money for anything else which will not be good. We want a war that we can sustain. We want to attack quick and hard, like finish the uni in two turns. So we really can't spend all money only to get a small portion of the force. On the other hand, it the upgrade is more like 20 ecs even 30ecs then we can very well afford that.

Again I will not be able to do anything for the turn from now. So the turn is in your hands. Feel free to make changes but please be careful. Worst comes worst, just press end turn and post it.

Now I'm going to sleep now. Night.

	09-02-2004 14:34									#17
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Good night

I second the plan to build light units and then upgrade them. I will test the upgrade-rush-cost difference later on today (having another exam at lunchtime )

	09-02-2004 14:34									#18
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quote: What is a 6-1-8? Can we make them now?

An unarmoured Missile Chopper - yes we can But ours are faster because of the CBA

HongHu, I'd be afraid to change anything that you've done.

One suggestion though. We need a better name than "missile choppers"

-Jam

	09-02-2004 14:44									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

well i'll check, try not to be tempted to change much, and send it before deadline.
all unless i get soem ovjection from someone else who would like to do it.spetialy if we can find some one that has already been turn player, that would be much better then me doing it.

	09-02-2004 15:11									#20
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if the diplomatic steps through PM and so are to be done before posting turn i would rather soem one else doing it. i can play turns but i dont feel secure enough dealing with diplomacy here., sorry

	09-02-2004 19:36									#21
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was afraid will fail to meet dead line so i posted turn.
hope i didnt make a big mess.....
changed roduction (not totaly, wasn't sure what hunghu plans where). used 100ecs to rush missile drop robber.

(how can i upload here turn so you can see it?)

	09-02-2004 20:23									#22
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100 ecs! That is 1/3 of our entire treasury for the next turn. (We have 231ecs this turn and will have 68 ecs more next turn.) I was saving our money for the next turn for the multiple rushes. We would need to rush at least 5 choppers and other things. Grrr I hope we still have enough money. Don't use 100 ecs to rush one single item until we have 1000 ecs rolling in every turn! I didn't even use that much money to rush the prototype chopper that has to come out this turn! What would a single drop rover do for us??? Ahhhhhhhhhhh!

The only thing I recommended to do was to check the upgrade cost and change production from missle choppers to shell choppers.

Can you still remove the turn from the thread? We still have time. We have 6 more hours to discuss your plan.

	09-02-2004 20:29									#23
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t-ras could you upload the screenshots for production for me to look at? I don't have the game here at work so will not be able to access your save. Thanks!

	09-02-2004 20:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski One suggestion though. We need a better name than "missile choppers" -Jam

I thought about change it to F-22 or something but I was nowhere closer to you guys in familiarity about wars and weapons. So please put in your picked name.

	09-02-2004 20:54									#25
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I'll give it a try for the CC dip message later today when I recover from the heart attack. Actually I need to finish my analysis for my work first.

	09-02-2004 21:29									#26
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HongHu, it looks like we're going out tonight - perhaps you'll be able to post the turn well before me. I may not get there untill midnight GMT +1... sorry.

-Jam

	09-02-2004 21:39									#27
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Anybody else is here? I really hope we can undo that 100 ec rush. If we don't have enough money the next turn to rush multiple units that would mean we won't have our force ready to come out 2158 and get into postion 2159. That will defeat the entire war plan.

Please somebody. t-ras? Mead?

	10-02-2004 00:12									#28
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Actually....You can't.
Sorry.

	10-02-2004 00:27									#29
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Oh ok. Sorry tass. I'll ask them to start the download then.

	10-02-2004 03:51									#30
	Got spare money?

*t_ras returns (again) from he's nerv stapling setion...

i seem to have done grate mistake, sorry.:

i realy was afraid we would be late and failed to find anybudys MSN or ICQ, so i rushed the robber (main change i did) and turned it.

hope this production change would prube at least usefull.

won't be done next time.

PS: we are at diferent times zones, could you just post how many hours left to dead-line next time, just to shut down my paranoic thought.....