09-02-2004 06:59									#1
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HOLY MYCENIAN CONSCRIPT! There are 16 barb horsemen at Silkfest-2222.
Barb boat is at SF-22233
Python has a barb camp too at Holy Grail-66669
(Maybe there is a GA or two going on over there ....they're in the Middle Ages, now
What does this mean for the war - Elite Numids? Elite Swordies?

Pythons send Iron
LL wave Polytheism about again.
New Monkey city is Bonobo.
Python have 16 Swords, 2 cats, 5 spears & 2 workers visible in 3 stacks at CoS-1, Cos-4, Cos-77

It appears that LL have brought their galley back to their warrior, now on the coast.

Burundy : needs 14s. Use sea 7spt, and gain 1 gold (1 other goes to corruption, 1 to happiness). Settler in 2, +3f
Silesia : Completes warrior, starts Sword
New warrior to Swindon

The 'Coventry 3' Mine
NW2 irrigates Izz-23
Settler to 744 of Swindon.
Warrior at Sw-12 moves 222
The Warrior stack moves 3
Spears next to Bonobo withdraw
Reg Warrior next to 17 barbs moves 4 where they can't get him next turn. He sees Numid & Settler at Bonono-11
FP moves 9
LL watches cage him in. He'll get on boat next turn.
Horse at Ciao-2 moves to Sw-12
Galley needs to hide from Monkey - moves 9 and fortifies. Barb galley is coming too.

Sent World Map to Python - to see if this map-trading shows barb camps.

	09-02-2004 07:03									#2
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Will the stack of workers mining Sw-1 (2 turns) get out the way in time? Python will have to bunch their stacks up at some point, though.

	09-02-2004 07:07									#3
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Turn Sent.

I also moved another spear out of Corinth to seal the border and block the road from Monkeyvision.

	09-02-2004 07:10									#5
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There's also a spear at Cor-21 since this photo was taken

	09-02-2004 19:16									#6
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****. Yeah, we might get down there to find elite Numids. On the other hand, how will Monkey feel: beset by barbs, CoD and Python... all at once, pretty much.

We're pretty darn close to the middle ages ourselves. We can pound out Polytheism in 4, and Construction I'd bet in 5 or 6. If we'd had a better research partner in Monkey, and weren't gearing up to kill them, we'd be there by now. I'm not worried about it.

I got a response from MZ, which I will post in the contact thread in a sec. Their galley is indeed coming back for their warrior, which is AWESOME for us. I think a suggestion to sail north is in order.

-Arrian

	09-02-2004 20:00									#7
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Hmm, as things stand now, we're ~20 turns behind the world tech leaders.

That's not necessarily a terrible thing, so long as we set ourselves up to rebound past them.

Silesia could build a library timed to roughly coincide with us turning research back on (~T112 - so we would start the Lib on T104). Swindon might be building our FP, though we could go with a library first if we want.

Must ponder further.

Given the spreading of Python's forces, the two trailing groups will fall 1 turn behind the lead group because of the river crossing near Swindon. So we 2 options of how to proceed.

The first is essentially the old plan:

T99 - march main stack to SF1, gift SF to Python.
T100 - Python's first group reaches SF, the other bits reach Corinth23. Monkey sees the city switch and our main stack on the border. We march to Bonobo8.
T101 - Python marches damn near everything to Bonobo9. Monkey does whatever. We attack Bonobo, if it's still there, triggering war.

The second:

T99 - march main stack to Mandril6, gift SF to Python.
T100 - Python's first group reaches SF, the other bits reach Corinth23. Monkey sees our invasion, and the city gift, and reacts accordingly. We either attack Mandril (if it's still there) or march to Bonobo7, or possibly both if we toast Mandril without much harm to our units.
T101 - Python marches damn near everything to Bonobo9. Monkey does whatever.

Which do you like better?

-Arrian

	09-02-2004 20:18									#8
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I think Mandrill 6. We need to hit both cities at once to cover the flank, and we've got the smaller stack.

My main concern is if they get two or more Numids in Bonobo, though the barbs may have a role to play in that.

Our warrior could fortify, or move north onto the other hill. Either way is useful obsevation, but either way he's barb-bait.

	09-02-2004 20:21									#9
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If we end up facing an Elite Numid in a well-defended city it'll be tense. A Numid Army would ensure their survival.

	09-02-2004 21:08									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus I think Mandrill 6. We need to hit both cities at once to cover the flank, and we've got the smaller stack. My main concern is if they get two or more Numids in Bonobo, though the barbs may have a role to play in that. Our warrior could fortify, or move north onto the other hill. Either way is useful obsevation, but either way he's barb-bait.

Yeah, I'm liking Mandrill6 as well. Sounds like a plan.

Our warrior should probably move 8, though let's see what the barbs do first. I hope the barbs go for Siamang.

We now have an excuse for not moving our scout, though! If they ask why he's hanging out near their road, I can just ask "what, you want us to run him into 16 barb horsemen?" Anyway on T99, we need to decide whether we have him cut the road, or just block it (forcing Monkey to attack him, declaring war on us). Cutting the road would delay reinforcements to the north, and might convince them to just burn the north and try to stack their core with Numids, which would be bad.

-Arrian

	09-02-2004 22:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Cutting the road would delay reinforcements to the north, and might convince them to just burn the north and try to stack their core with Numids, which would be bad. -Arrian

	09-02-2004 22:43									#12
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Then again, Cort, that's the smart play either way, so that's what they might do regardless of whether or not we cut the road.

-Arrian

	09-02-2004 23:27									#13
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Yes, they may well do that. Pillaging the road would help them more than us. They'll probably pillage it themselves.

It's about 12 long turns to their core as the roadless swordsman marches. If they have their GA going that'll be trouble. Would another galley (from Cov) help?

	09-02-2004 23:41									#14
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I thought about yet another galley...

We could then bring 6 units to an attack on PC (6 swords? 5 plus a spear? 5 plus a horse?).

Cov could complete that galley in 4 turns w/o help. Problem is that delays our landing force quite a bit, unless we feel like rushing that galley next turn (80g). Then it completes on T98, and though it still delays the landing force, it delays it by less.

Hrm.

Hey, you know what just occurred to me? What happened to those Monkey warriors that were southeast of Bonobo (Jojo and one other)? Were they still marching towards the barb camp? If so, my bet is the barbs will hit them. Those two warriors could eat up a bunch of the horsies before dying. And we definitely want them to die if they're out on that penninsula, since otherwise they will see our galleys when they sail south. Stealth is the key to that end-around.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 00:06									#15
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The 2 warrs are at Bon-3 and Bon-33. The latter probably be attacked, I don't know where the others might go - Siam-69?

There are also the barb galleys. Maybe 2, if they both came north, but barb camps can spawn galleys too.

If a third galley screws up the timing that's a problem, but if they do see galleys coming south they'll definitely hole up in the core.

	10-02-2004 00:50									#16
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Right, we need to make sure this galley end-around can actually make it to PC unseen. If they see it coming, our chances of taking PC are slim to none.

We need a good screenshot of everything from Silkfest down to the south of Monkeyland, including their east coast. That would help plan the movement of our galleys.

The more I think about it, the more I think we need to know what happens to those 2 monkey warriors. It's more important than the survival of our warrior. If the tile is open, I think he needs to move 9 next turn.

I don't think a 3rd galley is viable, but I'm not sure. By the way, I know that coastal barb camps produce barb galleys, but are you saying they can produce barb galley "uprisings?" I've never seen that. I thought it was land units only.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 01:06									#17
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Not galley uprisings, just regular spawnings. I hope. I'll get a screenie done when I can. Other PC is tied up atm.

	10-02-2004 01:42									#18
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here goes ...

	10-02-2004 02:54									#19
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Damn. You know, I really should have thought this through better.

At BEST, we can drop our swords on the Mountain 69 of PC without being seen, 5 turns after sailing from Silkfest33. The moves:

T100 - load galleys with 4 swords, move galleys 232.
T101 - Move 111.
T102 - Move 112 (well, move 1 this way, the other should go 224, arriving in the same place but exploring a bit).
T103 - Move 2.
T104 - Move 221, wake swords, unload on mountain.

Unfortunately, I don't see a way of getting to that hill 6 of PC without being seen (for sure on T103, when we would move 222, finishing the turn at PC 6699).

Can a galley 2 tiles out from the border (such as a galley at Orangutan 669) be seen? If so, then we should use our full movement on T103, but we will definitely be seen.

Hmm, some options:

1) Go with a landing on PC 69, using 2 swords, a spear, and a horseman. The stack is used primarily for pillaging those mines in their core, not for attacking PC.

2) We land at Orangutan6 with 4 swords.

The Orangutan landing has the advantage of having the best chance of arriving unseen.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 06:05									#20
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I don't think you can see beyond 1 tile out from your border, unless there's a unit on the coast.

Passing near Siam would be dicey if they've got units out there for the barbs.

	10-02-2004 16:41									#21
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Tricky, tricky...

2 other possiblilities (but not very clever, I admit).

1st: we inform Monkey that we will send a galley south for scouting and barbs chasing (it can wait at Gibbon 633).
2nd: we sell/trade them 1 or 2 workers, which we will send by galley of course...

	10-02-2004 17:03									#22
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If Python want to win the game, they should just backstab us this/next turn and take all our cities. They get a 2-civ continent, with a perfect second core. Contact has been make, so a longer term local tech partner is not so important.

	10-02-2004 17:05									#23
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Monkey have no Iron, so can be taken at leisure with Knights, should it be needed.

	10-02-2004 19:26									#24
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I agree with you. This is why a long time a go I raised the possiblity that we should to backstab them with the aid of the Monkeys.

I just hope we don't have to put a settler in one of our galleys...

	10-02-2004 19:33									#25
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Maybe the invasion should walk past the border cities, so as to get to the core asap before their GA.

~10 turns of GA before we arrive, with lots of mined non-bonus grass in 4 cities - a dozen numids?

	10-02-2004 21:02									#26
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Hence my idea for a pillaging operation around PC. That would slow their production down while the invasion forces march south.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:05									#27
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Oh, and yes, obviously Python could backstab us and essentially destroy us next turn. Then again, they could also have strung us along, saying they would provide us iron for us to upgrade in Silkfest on T98, and meanwhile marched their troops into our territory... at which point they would have 16 swords against warriors, chariots and spears (and 2 horse). If they were going to backstab, I think they would have done it right.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:11									#28
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Yes, the pillaging operation is looking good atm - and the boats could go back for more.

	10-02-2004 21:15									#29
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So for pillaging:

2 sword, 1 spear, 1 horse?

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:16									#30
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They might poprush some archers to attack the pillage stack with, though, then finish off with the numids.