10-02-2004 01:54									#1
	Do we loan Catapults to CGN? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Do we help CGN by loaning them our Catapults?

	10-02-2004 02:53									#2
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If this passes, we're still going to need to negotiate the terms of this with CGN (what exactly do we mean by "loan", for instance?).

That said, I'm in favor of doing this. I hate the fact that we're going to have to bail CGN out for their idiocy when it came to not building artillery units ....... but that may be what it's going to take. Especially if we're going to get our cats/cannons BACK, this is worth doing. CGN desperately needs some artillery support.

	10-02-2004 03:13									#3
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A few questions:

are all of our cats in one place or within a turn's transit?

If not, then how long until we get a decent amount gathered.

Will the gifting of the city disrupt its build plan significantly?

how many cats involved?


And those are just my questions getting them there.


Personally I'm leaning towards voting no. Even if we have all the cats together, it will take what 2 turns for CGN to transport them to their capitol? And how many additional turns before they will make it to the front? 3, 4? In 5 or six turns this war will be over and we will only be pissing away the cats.

	10-02-2004 03:29									#4
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Good Grief NO

Too many things can go wrong.

CGN will most likely lose them.

If CGN, gets on top of GWT, then we will need ot switch sides & help GWT. (Good luck getting our cats back)

And I dont trust CFC just yet, who have been quite quiet these last few turns, and dont seem too troubled about GCA perpectual war.

	10-02-2004 03:40									#5
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Absolutely NOT

I was in favor of the Boston issue only because there was a direct precedent. If we say YES to this we will be FIRST team to exploit a war declaration also. Given that this is a different kind of exploit, we would also need Mongoose's ruling on this.

Like I've said before, I do not want this to be a competition over who ups the ante in exploits.

So, in summary:

NO

	10-02-2004 03:42									#6
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also one more thing, there ALREADY was a poll on this issue and it ended up in negative (and hopefully this one will also). I do not see why we have to poll again on this very same issue we discussed just a few weeks ago. Just because GWT appears to have the upper hand is no excuse for us to change our morals.

	10-02-2004 03:46									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen also one more thing, there ALREADY was a poll on this issue and it ended up in negative (and hopefully this one will also). I do not see why we have to poll again on this very same issue we discussed just a few weeks ago. Just because GWT appears to have the upper hand is no excuse for us to change our morals.

I polled again because I can.

Seriously, the poll to warp CGN units passed. I don't see this warping as too different than that. I mean if your objections to this were based on the warping idea, then the last poll shows a change of opinion. If your objections are based upon what H-E has brought up, then it is a different argument against it. What ever your disagreements to warping Cats to CGN is you can't deny my right to post a poll on the issue at this time.

	10-02-2004 03:55									#8
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100% NO for me. MZ said why well.

	10-02-2004 04:00									#9
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel A few questions: are all of our cats in one place or within a turn's transit? If not, then how long until we get a decent amount gathered. Will the gifting of the city disrupt its build plan significantly? how many cats involved?

	10-02-2004 04:10									#10
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Sleepy: we have 9 Catapults in the south which can be in a small, 100% corrupt city down there to be gifted to CGN fairly soon (next couple turns). It probably won't disrupt the build schedule too much, as we aren't really doing much but growing our cities down there for the time being.

	10-02-2004 04:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Sleepy: we have 9 Catapults in the south which can be in a small, 100% corrupt city down there to be gifted to CGN fairly soon (next couple turns). It probably won't disrupt the build schedule too much, as we aren't really doing much but growing our cities down there for the time being.

Thankyou.

	10-02-2004 04:53									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Sleepy: we have 9 Catapults in the south which can be in a small, 100% corrupt city down there to be gifted to CGN fairly soon (next couple turns). It probably won't disrupt the build schedule too much, as we aren't really doing much but growing our cities down there for the time being.

CGN have to "capture" the catapults first right ?

Where is their unit, on our continent, to take the cats ?

	10-02-2004 04:54									#13
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I know that I brought this subject back up in the other threads, but with CGN utter lack military planning I fear that we would just loose our cats. In one stinking turn, CGN screwed up this war to the point where I don't think they are going to win.

Sorry, but no. We can maybe still help them tech wise, but from here on I feel that we should really be neutral.

Noobs...

	10-02-2004 05:15									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel CGN have to "capture" the catapults first right ? Where is their unit, on our continent, to take the cats ?

They would have to rush a warrior upon acquiring the town.

	10-02-2004 05:34									#15
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1. Apolyton gifts city to CGN
2. CGN accepts it and rushes a unit on that turn; 80 gold for a Warrior.
3. CGN decalres war on Apolyton and captures Catapults and moves them into that city.
4. CGN sends us peace and the city we gifted them as 'accepted'.
5. Apolyton accepts peace and the city. Viola, Catapults are warped to CGN's capital.

This takes two turns to complete.

I'm sorry that some people think this type of unit warping is any different than others. You have your opinion, I have mine. This is not only for the benefit of CGN but for our benefit as well; CGN would have to pay the upkeep for these units freeing up our economy to do more research.

	10-02-2004 05:47									#16
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Rushing - now I understand.

I dont do enough of that in my games, and always forget about it's potential.

Thankyou.

	10-02-2004 08:03									#17
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I polled again because I can.

Good. You going to poll again next week once this one fails also?

	10-02-2004 09:30									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Good. You going to poll again next week once this one fails also?

Nah...





Maybe tonight...

	10-02-2004 09:42									#19
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I don't think Cats can save them. GWT's best bet is to use their Ansars either 1) against CGN's knights, 2) against a weakly defended city (like Agincourt) or 3) as a first strike to be followed up by the MI's (thus weakening the defenders).

In neither of these 3 scenarios will the cats make any difference because in 1) they won't keep up 2) damage inflicted will not be enough or 3) the Ansars will retreat (unless they attack knights on defense)