10-02-2004 22:15									#31
	Put an end to popups!

Yep, noticed that. 16spt in EotS right now. I haven't looked at the Smith thread yet.

Ok, the way I did the midlands ends up like this:

Blizzard, Size11, +0fpt, +10spt, starts market.
Santa Ana, Size6, +0fpt, +6spt, begins library.
Dissidentville, Size11, +0fpt, +13spt, 11s in box, building courthouse.

The shield counts are net shields.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:16									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

If that's how Dissidentville is to be configured, we need a shortrush next turn to a pike (24->30 shields, costs 24g) so that it won't waste a ton of shields on its courthouse build.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:19									#33
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All that food shortage was about shaving build times and reducing shield loss on build completion in that area this turn. Yes, it needs shuffling - Diss needs to submit tiles in the east and it all goes from there. A lot less shields than last turn, but the last two turns were special shield-heavy ones. Once Blizzard gets its harbour, Santa Ana can grow a bit.

	10-02-2004 22:20									#34
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Go ahead any play it, Arrian.

	10-02-2004 22:21									#35
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Hmm, I suppose the eventual plan is to irrigate D'ville99 and 96, so it can hit size12 and use one more mountain.

But, having messed around with that, I note that doing that now tosses the city into disorder. So that's a no-go until we get a market or cathedral in there.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:23									#36
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No, you do it Cort, please. First off, I'm coming in w/o having played it recently. Second, every time I try to email a save onward there seem to be issues.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:25									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Arrian It looks like Monsoon is at 33s, +11spt, unless I miscounted. At that rate, it will fall 1 shield short of its marketplace on T181, unless we shortrush a cathedral on T179 (when the city has 77s, cost of 12g). -Arrian

Yep, Monsoon was needing that.

	10-02-2004 22:34									#38
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Size 10 is the ceiling without a temple.
Size 11 is the ceiling without a mkt/cath.

I'm assuming mkt before cath as we want cash more than culture.

Blizzard? You suggested mkt, but a harbour allows Santa Ana to grow, and it just finished its aqua.

I intended this - less shields, but growth for Santa Ana:

Blizzard, Size11, +0fpt, +10spt, starts harbor.
Santa Ana, Size6, +2fpt, +5spt, begins library.
Dissidentville, Size11, +0fpt, +10spt, 11s in box, building courthouse.

	10-02-2004 22:36									#39
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What happens when a city gets down to zero food? Does it starve then, or the following turn, if left with a food deficit?

The reason I ask is that Hurricane is capable of 20spt (22, -2 to waste) with a -1fpt deficit. If it switches to that on T177 (4f, 321s) it finishes Copernicus 1 turn early, on T181... provided it doesn't go and starve on T181.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Size 10 is the ceiling without a temple. Size 11 is the ceiling without a mkt/cath. I'm assuming mkt before cath as we want cash more than culture. Blizzard? You suggested mkt, but a harbour allows Santa Ana to grow, and it just finished its aqua. I intended this - less shields, but growth for Santa Ana: Blizzard, Size11, +0fpt, +10spt, starts harbor. Santa Ana, Size6, +2fpt, +5spt, begins library. Dissidentville, Size11, +0fpt, +10spt, 11s in box, building courthouse.

Just as valid. How big can Santa Ana get once Blizzard has a harbor?

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:41									#41
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Duh, I can check that... looks like size8 w/o further irrigation, maybe size9 if we irrigate more.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:00									#42
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Shall we do that embassy? I think it's worth it.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:16									#43
	Got spare money?

yeah, lets

	10-02-2004 23:18									#44
	Get a bigger avatar today!

edit: nevermind.

	10-02-2004 23:22									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

1 musket
11 Riders
17 catapults

No danger re: Copernicus.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:26									#46
	Put an end to popups!

so looks like cope's won't be a problem for us, 14 turns.

Must be using it as a prebuild for something, or just screwing with us, though Imp city has everything else built, as far as I can tell, except for a cathedral and colleseum.

28 shields a turn -1 for waste, pretty good output. can grow one more citizen and shuffle around to break 30, but they're really sucking the life out of nearby towns by doing that. jesus that's too tight at this stage, imho.

looks like their whole cat army is there. Looks like they've built quite a few more (in addition to the ones they captured from us :crook not upgraded to cannon yet (zero gold in treasury). Must not fear an ND invasion otherwise, one would think those would be dispersed a bit. why in one central location? puzzles.

	10-02-2004 23:28									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We must be careful. That city is capable of 28spt (currently at 27spt), which means 22 turns to ToE if they do it right, and have a prebuild for it (this means Universal Suffrage, I'd imagine).

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:28									#48
	Tired of ads?

why does imperial city have waste/corruption? they are republic like us. Is this an indication that they don't have their FP up? I never understood the mechanics of that stuff.

	10-02-2004 23:31									#49
	Remove this text

Dunno what they're doing with all those cats up there.

The Riders, ok, since that way they're central.

You're right, it is 30spt capable... I missed that it was only size11.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:32									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Eye of the Storm has waste/corruption too. 1 shield, 1 commerce.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:34									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Eye of the Storm has waste/corruption too. 1 shield, 1 commerce. -Arrian

I admit it, I have it opened in C3C, where EoTS has zero corruption but Imperial city does.

Weird.

I need to stop doing this, Lots of changes that I've been mixed up in the past on (such as using obsolete wonders as prebuilds, can't do that in C3C load)

	10-02-2004 23:44									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

As far as I am concerned the Sistine ploy is an exploit and should be denounced by all. It is nothing more than trying to gt over on everyone.

Yes the teams screwed up not spelling it out better, but none the less, it is not appropriate.

	10-02-2004 23:47									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I consider the Sistine thing to be in a gray area. The deal itself (promising not to build that wonder) is outside the realm of game mechanics, which I suppose is the problem. Anyway, I favor talking to GoW about it to see what they think.

If there is a general concensus amongst the teams that this is exploitish, I could see voiding the deal. But like I said, personally, I see it as a gray area.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:48									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I just noticed something else while running the save in C3C.


To me it looks like the chance for a cultural victory by any party has ended. I assumed that Lego with its large landmass and stability would run away with it, but according to C3c (assuming no translation problems ) lego only has a total of 4040 points. We have 3120. And legopolis has 1152. I don't think they can reach either 100k (with us less than 50k) or 20k in legopolis by either the time that the un is built or the time the space race is on.

	10-02-2004 23:51									#55
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I was going to mention the culture thing myself. I have it open in ptw, but the culture graph and cultural advisor make it apparent that we've closed the gap nicely. We're 2nd in culture.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 23:55									#56
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What happened to Cort?

-Arrian

	11-02-2004 00:30									#57
	The Turn Increase the size of your Attachments

I've been doing this.

Start

Cyclone and Sandstorm build workers
Santa Ana builds Aqua, starts Lib
Blizzard builds lib, starts harbor
Inchoff builds aqua, starts harbor


Moves

irrigated SA-87 and Inchoff-74 and got ther midlands set up for this:

Inchoff Size 6, +2fpt, +6spt, starts harbor
Blizzard, Size11, +0fpt, +10spt, starts harbor.
Santa Ana, Size6, +2fpt, +6spt, begins library.
Dissidentville, Size11, +0fpt, +10spt, 11s in box, building courthouse.

Switched the mnt/hill tiles in Arashi/Tempest and added a worker to Arashi, working mnt for 21spt, -1fpt


Current Builds


from North to South :

Eli : Lib in 3
Inchon : Harb in 15
WoC : CH in 5
Inchoff : Harb in 14
Diss : Courthouse in 8
Santa Ana : Lib in 14
Blizzard : Harb in 8
Monsoon : Mkt in 6
Arashi : ToE prebuild in ~25 via Bank (5)
WW : Aqua in 12
Tempest : Newton in 8
Hurricane : Copernicus in 7
OG : Lib in 3
EotS : Cathedral in 4
BB : Magellan in 31 / Bank in 7
Tornado : CH in 7
Typhoon : Lib in 12
Sufa : Lib in 9
Cyclone & Sandstorm : Worker-pumps


City Sizes :

Eli : 6
Inchon : 5
WoC : 6
Inchoff : 6
Diss : 11
Santa Ana : 6
Blizzard : 11
Monsoon : 11
Arashi : 11
WW : 6
Tempest : 11
Hurricane :12
OG : 11
EotS : 12
BB : 12
Tornado : 11
Typhoon : 11
Sufa : 11
Cyclone & Sandstorm : 4-5


318g, -3gpt, Magnetism next turn.

	11-02-2004 00:31									#58
	Diplo Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Established embassy with GoW (see above)

	11-02-2004 00:39									#59
	Remove this text

Turn sent

	11-02-2004 00:43									#60
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Good job.

this seemingly benign turn turned into something important.

good job all around.