10-02-2004 16:22									#1
	Turn 175 : 600 AD Inflate your Upload Space

The save is fixed! And we've learned something from the bug.

For ages the F4 screen showed no contact between GoW and Lego. This was, I'm sure, connected to the RoP bug GoW were having. That bug was while Lego were trying to get into position to thwart our northern front against GoW.

Now we hear that some golds payments weren't forthcoming and everyone holds their breath hoping it's not fatal but we're back - AND the F4 screen now shows contact between GoW and Lego.

Conclusion? Lego were paying GoW for something. We know that Lego were on 90% cash two turns ago.

The beaker-count this turn shows a 10% deval for Economics, and 30% deval for Metallurgy. Only us and GoW have Physics.

So, I reckon GoW sold Metallurgy to Lego, who have just researched Economics.

	10-02-2004 16:38									#2
	Put an end to popups!

After 1 turn of 80% (last turn), we can finish Magnetism at 70% (our break-even rate) this turn then take ToG in 4 turns at 70% to reach the IA on turn 180.

MZ's response suggests IA tech trades are likely, with us being invited to a 3-way chat with ND about tech on thursday, or a on-to-one with him at any time.

If a 3-way deal can be made, we may be looking at 19 turns from the IA to Sci Method (Medicine (trade) + Steam(6) + Electicity (7) + Sci Meth (6)). That's 24 turns from now. The Smiths thread has the wonder-planning on it - currently looking at Arashi's current bank being the ToE prebuild, and EotS building Hoover after it's cathedral. If we got Industrialisation in the mix, there may be other wonder configurations, which Arrian can ponder on

	10-02-2004 18:43									#3
	Put an end to popups!

This is... troubling.

Why would GoW be selling Metallurgy to Lego if they plan to invade? Why shorten Lego's timeline for entering the IA? They're the ones talking about the "small window" between MT and Steam. Why help Lego close it? Am I missing something?

I'd be curious to see if they mention this suspected tech deal in the chat. Might be interesting to ask both of them if they have recently or plan to trade any tech to Lego and see what GoW says.

	10-02-2004 19:01									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

The Metallurgy trade could have been pre-arranged back during the war, or they were desperate for the 500 they needed to pay us, or they're just slags. Both ND and GoW have been promiscuously trading with Lego for their short term gain, and long term detriment. Maybe they just don't think like us.

	10-02-2004 20:03									#5
	Got spare money?

OK, I checked the last few turns, and I think Economics actually dropped 10% last turn (590), and Metallurgy had dropped 10% in 570, and by 30% in 580. So either GoW supplied Metallurgy to ND and Lego, or ND discovered it themselves the turn after.

So Economics was discovered the turn after we investigated, which might explain the 10% Science on that turn, their last on Economics.

	10-02-2004 20:52									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'm suprised that lego would research both navigation and economics. Perhaps they were thinking that we would go all out for smiths and they wanted a backup GA trigger?

	10-02-2004 20:57									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

GoW is building copernicus in imperial city.

They were not building it last turn

however, I think the largest non gw they could build was a uni, so that would put them ~halfway ~200 shields from copern.

Will we build copern before we get ToG? The dreaded wonder casacade!

	10-02-2004 21:06									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Our Copernicus is ripe in 7 turns. Fancy an embassy with GoW anyone?

I think Uni's and Banks are both 160s, aren't they? Maybe GoW do want Medicine after all.

	10-02-2004 21:08									#9
	Got spare money?

GoW's could be Magellan ....

	10-02-2004 21:08									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

... if Imperial City is coastal

	10-02-2004 21:13									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Our Copernicus is ripe in 7 turns. Fancy an embassy with GoW anyone? I think Uni's and Banks are both 160s, aren't they? Maybe GoW do want Medicine after all.

I thought unis were 200. I don't know.,

how much would an embassy cost?

are there anyother cities on lego we would like to investigate? I know that we can't see some on the interior, but some on the coast might hold secrets. Jackson, being the one I have in mind as they built something there, pyramids, a long time ago, probably stillone of their most powerful cities.

	10-02-2004 21:23									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Should we get in touch with ND / GoW about sharing the costs of investigating currently unseen Lego cities, and sharing maps, so that the entire of Lego's interior becomes known (without Lego knowing we know). Worth mentioning at the chat? If there is a genuine plan to invade Lego, that information would be very valuable (plus give us an idea of what their interior garrisons are like).

	10-02-2004 21:25									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

GoW should be getting at least 25 spt in Imperial, if they already have 200 shields there they could do it in 8, our prebuilds are what 7 and 8. I guess this is where going first comes in handy. Is it worth buying the embassy?

If GoW are building a wonder it could only realistically be smiths, newtons, copernicus, ToE, sistines or sufferage. I really hope they're going for either copern or newtons and that we can beat them to both

On the other hand perhaps they are going to go all out for espionage and it's a intel agency prebuild.

	10-02-2004 21:25									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Lego have three or four big coastal cities. Magellan is probably coming via a Palace out there. They're all expensive to look in though (~175g). The cheapest is actually >40g, Toco-something, on the west coast, on a desert and size 2. We'd see some tiles though.

In fact, it would be possible to see maybe 60% or their map by investigating cities. It would cost nearly 600 to investigate 4 major cities for wonders.

	10-02-2004 21:30									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

89g for an Embassy with GoW. Would it be rude to that before the chat?

Yes, 200s for Uni, sorry.

	10-02-2004 21:37									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Establish that embassy, Cort! We might have some shuffling to do.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:40									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I wouldn't be surprised if GoW sold tech to Lego, since I think GoW are in bed with Lego.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:42									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

FYI - I called in sick today (head cold, arg), so I happen to be loading the save as I type...

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:46									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Are we looking at building Smiths at all? I think it's possible that Lego could actually stay with Sistines instead of smiths in their capital. They'd need to have some kind of contingency plan should everyone else gang up on them, sistines could be a part of that.
They'd have to be considering the treat of an Embargo against them when they get too powerful, in which case they would need it. Although I suppose they could just use it as a prebuild then immediately start building it again after smiths.

	10-02-2004 21:48									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hmmm...

Some WF shuffling around Tempest & Arashi may be in order.

Tempest is currently set up for +1fpt, but if it grows, it will starve. Meanwhile, Arashi is stuck at size10.

But if we have them swap a mountain for a hill (transferring the +1fpt to Arashi), we could add a worker and have Arashi work an irrigated desert tile for size11, +0fpt.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:49									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm gonna see about shortrushing possibilities in Sufa, Tornado and Typhoon.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:54									#22
	Put an end to popups!

Ok, we could cut a turn off of Sufa's library build by shortrushing a granary once the city hits 55shields (currently at 20s, +7spt). T180, I believe. The library would complete on T813.

Alternatively, we could shortrush a pikeman next turn and switch the city to a marketplace. The market would complete on T186.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 21:58									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by OPD Although I suppose they could just use it as a prebuild then immediately start building it again after smiths.

That's what we're expecting, and if they do, I think a joint declaration from other teams is in order.

When the other teams allowed Lego to build Sistine, it was to allow them to build Sistine, not exploit the deals to give themselves a 600s prebuild for the rest of the game.

If this is Smith's all other teams (except Vox, natch) should tear up their agreements and build Sistine if they please.

OPD, there's been a lot of discussion about wonders of late, and the upshot is we've got FIVE prebuilds going, or about to go, but not Smiths. It was always assumed Lego would do it.

	10-02-2004 22:00									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

we should discuss the sistine matter with GoW. I can't imagine they're pleased with the situation either.

	10-02-2004 22:01									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Arrian Hmmm... Some WF shuffling around Tempest & Arashi may be in order. -Arrian

Yeah, those two have been bugging me for a while.

	10-02-2004 22:04									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

What do you think of what I did (gave the hill north of Tempest to Arashi, and gave Tempest the mountain instead, and added a worker to Arashi)?

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:04									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

GoW might be after Uni Suff. War is their middle, er, last name after all.

	10-02-2004 22:06									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It looks like Monsoon is at 33s, +11spt, unless I miscounted. At that rate, it will fall 1 shield short of its marketplace on T181, unless we shortrush a cathedral on T179 (when the city has 77s, cost of 12g).

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:08									#29
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Serious WF shuffling also necessary in the Santa Anna/Dissidentville/Blizzard area, since Santa Anna needs a lot more food to avoid starvation.

How did you deal with that, Cort? I shuffled a bunch of things and got the food to work out, but we definitely lose a bunch of shields.

-Arrian

	10-02-2004 22:10									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Arrian What do you think of what I did (gave the hill north of Tempest to Arashi, and gave Tempest the mountain instead, and added a worker to Arashi)? -Arrian

that's phuquing brilliant!

Note that Hurricane is borrowing Eots-9 for about 5 turns (see Smith's thread ).