10-02-2004 21:21									#1
	Zones of Control in Civ 4? Support Apolyton

In Civ 1 & 2 the Zones of Control forbade a unit - in peace or war - to move from a square adjacent to an enemy unit into another square adjacent to an enemy unit, unless entering aor exiting a city.

In Colonization there were no zones of control, but warships had the ability to slow down other warships.

In Civ 3, certain units had the ability to damage a passing unit.

What should ZoCs be like in Civ 4?

By the way - are there Zones of Control in SMAC or CTP?

	10-02-2004 21:29									#2
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I like Civ3's system but I would also like to see the Slow Down ability of Colonization, preferably as an editible option in the editor.

	10-02-2004 21:45									#3
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Optional ZOC's in CTP.

	10-02-2004 22:28									#4
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I'd like to see some units having Civ1 zones of control, which were quite powerful and interesting - although too annoying to allow to every unit.

	11-02-2004 10:17									#5
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fyi, I believe SMAC used civ2 rules regarding zoc. The spy ability in smac included a "ignores zoc" flag.

An important point to bear in mind when planning zoc and ranges in general is the actual scale of civ. on a 100x100 map, a tile is 180 km (112 miles) across. On a 256x256 gigamap, each tile is 70 km (44 miles) across.

So, I would say that zoc of control similar to civ1/2 should exist. It should have a maximum range of 1 for any unit. However, some units (guerillas, spies, etc) ignore zoc. Also, not every unit will exert a zoc. Briefly:

* Sea units only exert a zoc on sea tiles.
* Only sea units with missiles (ie circa 1960s tech onwards) exert a zoc.
* Any sea unit in battle can always retreat (unless it started the battle with more that 1 hit point) unless in a zoc or on a coast tile. This reflects the historical reality of trying to force battle on the high seas.
* Air units never exert a zoc.
* Land units without ranged weapons never exert a zoc, regardless of anything written below.
* Artillery that requires assembly in field does not exert a zoc.
* Land units which have fast movement may have a zoc.
* Land units with ranges over 1000 yards (essentially riflemen upwards) may exert a zoc.

"Exerts zoc" is a flag that is set for each unit, not enforced by the rough guidelines above.

"Ignores zoc" is a flag that is set for each unit, not enforced by the rough guidelines above.

Any unit with a ranged weapon should get a first strike ability if directly attacked, civ3 style.

---
eta: An additional thought.

Except or some units that have a really long range/speed combo, perhaps land units should only exert a zoc if fortified. Fortification in this context represents not only being dug into their main position, but also actively patrolling the surrounding areas. However, modern tanks are the only unit so far that seems to fit this category. It seems excessive programming for a single unit.

Last edited by lajzar on 11-02-2004 at 10:27

	12-02-2004 03:09									#6
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Hmmm, I do like the ZoC system in Civ3, 'cause I often felt that Civ2 ZoC was fine for 'War Game' scales, but was not truly accurate at the scale represented in Civ! I do think that units in forts should be able to exert a Civ1/2 ZoC when stationed in forts, though, and also feel that fast moving units should be able to 'intercept' units that get within X squares of them!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	12-02-2004 03:17									#7
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I voted other.

I think it depends on the unit. Can it shoot from afar (modern infantry...)? Can it move fast? Does it even WISH to block other units?? There may be other factors, and the question is how to integrate this the best.

Perhaps you could decide to give a task to a unit, just as we gave tasks to planes in Civ3. Everyone already knows how to use planes so... MAYBE.

	12-02-2004 04:59									#8
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Hmmm, I do like the ZoC system in Civ3, 'cause I often felt that Civ2 ZoC was fine for 'War Game' scales, but was not truly accurate at the scale represented in Civ! I do think that units in forts should be able to exert a Civ1/2 ZoC when stationed in forts, though, .

I agree with this

	12-02-2004 22:55									#9
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I'm not voting at the moment, but adding suggestions for discussion purposes. Some of the suggestion may not work together either - they are merely my attempt to throw out some ideas.

The suggestions below are not meant as my support of those ideas...

ZOC can be set up as the following - either it stops a unit cold in its tracks or it inflict damage on a bypassing unit. Both concepts can work together in the same system.

1. Unit catagory can be the following
1a. No ZOC exerted
1b. Soft ZOC - there is a chance of damage inflicted on a potential bypassing unit, but that attacking unit can still attack its intended target
1c. Hard ZOC - an attacking unit is stopped dead in its tracks

Bypassing a ZOC does not have to be an either/or setup of success/failure. The success in bypassing a ZOC can be a percentage chance based on the defensive army's unit composition.

2. Certain units can bypass a ZOC that is tied into stealth. Stealth units can also occupy the same tile as an enemy unit without detection. (the coding in SMAC shows that this can be done). Stealth detection is either with friendly stealth unit or by chance, (possibly based on the number of units in the stack.)

3. Certain units gain larger ZOC bonuses that are tied into mobility and range. Each mobile/ranged unit in the defending stack can have a percentage chance of stopping a bypassing unit.

4. If a particular unit does not exert a ZOC, having a certain number of non-exerting ZOC units on a tile will allow it to raise its percentage of stopping a bypassing unit. Sheer size should allow for a tile to be adequetely scouted.

5. Armies, as they stand in civ3, as well as forts/bases, drastically raise the ability to exert a ZOC (due to the ability of the great leader and organization inherent in a fort/base).

	17-02-2004 14:43									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Fast land and sea units could be given a "patrol" order so that they stay in one spot and attack all enemy trespassers within a number of squares - a bit like the air units' Intercept mission. Then you can protect a long coast by some Destroyers without the risk that a lone transport slips through.