12-02-2004 08:39									#1
	Unit limits? Remove this text

I never thought I'd have to ask. But I am playing this Sid level game and there are 2 AI civs with over one thousand units.

Is there a limit?
What kind of problems will I face?
Is there a workaround?
Should I just quit?

Feed back appreciated.

	12-02-2004 09:08									#2
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4096 total for the whole game.

	12-02-2004 09:27									#3
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You won't create any more units once that limit has been reached. You will 'produce' them, but they won't actually be created. The best option is simply to hope that the AI right before you loses some wars, so you can make some more of your own. Other than that I don't believe there is any work around.

	12-02-2004 09:33									#4
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I can't see any reason to continue my Sid level attempt given these facts.

I can't see any reason to keep Civ3 on my computer given these facts.

I could understand having some limitation that might cause a problem if I were playing a 32 civ game on a huge map at a high level after 2000 ad.

But playing a Sid level game with only 12 civs (3 dead) on only a large map and to be staring down the barrel of a unit limit in 1390 AD?

This is only 268 turns into a 540 turn game. Less than half.

Gross design error Firaxis. Once again, those folks are lucky I am not a wealthy man or I would surely buy the company and fire the design team. They have wasted my time. No more.

	12-02-2004 09:44									#5
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JT, How in the 'BLEEP' could you allow a game to get to such a state!

(Oh, you are playing at Sid. I am playing my first Monarch game)

Oh well, if you have to cease and desist with Civ3, we will miss your rants, trolls, ... and even attempts at humor.

	12-02-2004 10:03									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick I can't see any reason to keep Civ3 on my computer given these facts.

I agree JT....do it!

	12-02-2004 10:09									#7
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Spies report 3,020 units in game at 1390AD not counting I suppose captured workers and artillery.

Hitittes 1180
Dutch 950
Germany 270
Sumeria 249 (me)
Zulu 209 (including over 100 impi)
Celts 115
Portugal 44
Russia 23

Thats a nice distribution of units.

Well, whether or not I play or uninstall, you may count on me continuing to point out the utter failures of Firaxis as they continue to singlehandedly destroy the pc gaming industry with their incompetant work.

	12-02-2004 12:29									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Let's see jimmytrick, in Civ II I hit the game unit limit 'every game' and often long before 268 turns egags, that is a lot of turns! The main difference is I would access the 'cheat/editor' and eliminate outright one or two faraway offending AI civs and carry on until the limit got hit again. Here your spies are counting them for you, how nice.

You still have over a thousand units before the game limit is reached, quit complaining and get on with it.

I recommend a new strategy or call it 'emergency game plan one'. Knock off all the lesser AI's and sieze their unit quota's.

Or quit screwing around and declare war immediately against the Hitittes and Dutch, oh well throw in Germany too, since you let them get ahead of you like that. This niffty plan will insure that you not get to the game quota before you are neatly wiped off the planet.

And who says Firaxis did not have you in mind when they arranged all these things. The Firaxis smile.

	12-02-2004 12:40									#9
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Originally posted by jimmytrick
"I can't see any reason to continue my Sid level attempt given these facts."

"I can't see any reason to keep Civ3 on my computer given these facts. "

I would think these should work in your favor. The AI cannot make more units, but will probably keep trying. You can set your econ to research and luxs with no cost, except for replacement units.

"I could understand having some limitation that might cause a problem if I were playing a 32 civ game on a huge map at a high level after 2000 ad."

The limit if used for the same reason at this point as it is for any earlier occurence.

"But playing a Sid level game with only 12 civs (3 dead) on only a large map and to be staring down the barrel of a unit limit in 1390 AD? "

They want to be able to state the game will run on some system specs that do not require the best available. In truth, the game can bogged down even on the fastest systems. I have played the game on extra hige maps, on all levels and never ran into the limit, so it is not a big problem.



"Gross design error Firaxis. Once again, those folks are lucky I am not a wealthy man or I would surely buy the company and fire the design team. They have wasted my time. No more. "

Can you give us some slack on this crap. Two years now you have been whinning about this.

	12-02-2004 12:44									#10
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Does thinking outside of the box necessarily mean choosing a different game?


Brothers in Arms


These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms

Through these fields of destruction
Baptism of fire
I've watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

Dire Straits

Last edited by Drachen on 12-02-2004 at 21:10

	12-02-2004 13:38									#11
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oh please, why are you still playing the game if you think it´s so bad?

	12-02-2004 13:47									#12
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Well, whether or not I play or uninstall, you may count on me continuing to point out the utter failures of Firaxis as they continue to singlehandedly destroy the pc gaming industry with their incompetant work.

Sad. Such vitriol

Constructive criticism is a good thing and educational. It's a pity you don't agree.

	12-02-2004 13:50									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Drachen Does thinking outside of the box necessarily mean choosing a different game?

Dire Straits --> awesome group, awesome man.

	12-02-2004 14:19									#14
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick I can't see any reason to keep Civ3 on my computer given these facts.

So you won't play a game that is less than perfect? You think that programmers should be able to ignore limitations of memory and processor speed? I'd be interested to know what games you *do* keep on your computer. Failing that, if you're going to wipe Civ3 because of a minor problem on the highest difficulty level, can you guarantee that you will clear off and stop leaving your bizarrely unpleasant posts littering these boards? Does it occur to you that Firaxis' programmers are actually people, who might be doing their best within the limitations they are given, and that this is a public forum which anyone can see, and that your ill-thought out and misspelt comments might therefore cause considerable offence?

	12-02-2004 15:35									#15
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I thought jt was back from ranting to constructive criticism. This thread proves the opposite.

	12-02-2004 16:19									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Plotinus ....and misspelt comments

good pick-up and oh so subtle

	12-02-2004 18:10									#17
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LOL
i h8 jumping on JT's back over this

sounds like a good toy throwing session there.
of course its reasonable to uninstall the game becuase of the serious game design flaw, actually, throw the box at the wall, go on, it will make u feel better.

for someone such as yourself who actually attempts Sid level games (im only on emporer), who played how many hours worth of Civ 3 to reach that level (unless it just came natural ), it must be incredably frustrating to realise that the programmers went out of there way to pick a unit level that was Reachable.

and yes, boy are they lucky ur not a rich man JT. if it was me id be sweating.

	12-02-2004 18:28									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I thought jt was back from ranting to constructive criticism. This thread proves the opposite.

sad

I could see the indignation if this was a new discovery or if Civ3 had just bee released, but this has been known for 2 years. Personally I find the 512 city limit to be a much worse limitation that I've run up against continually on giga maps, not that that would cause me to have a hissy fit like this.

	12-02-2004 18:28									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Mr Justice for someone such as yourself who actually attempts Sid level games (im only on emporer), who played how many hours worth of Civ 3 to reach that level (unless it just came natural ), it must be incredably frustrating to realise that the programmers went out of there way to pick a unit level that was Reachable.

welcome to 'poly

	12-02-2004 18:41									#20
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jimmytrick:

We're sorry, but there is a hard-coded maximum of 4,096 half-witted screeds which can be posted here on the forum.

You have grossly exceeded this number. Please follow the steps outlined below to fix this problem:

1. Uninstall Civ3 and all expansion packs. If you continue to play the game, we fear the final tenuous bonds which connect you to the rational world will snap, setting you adrift in a swirling pool of insanity and making you a danger to yourself and others.

2. Halt all contact with individuals and groups related to Civilization or any other Firaxis product. Such contact could result in a return to the deranged mentality demonstrated by most of your postings. Much as an alcoholic must never again drink, you must never again put yourself in a position where your apparent addiction to Firaxis-bashing could reemerge. (If you still feel the need to post, go to the Off-Topic forum. You'll fit right in among some of the wack-jobs over there.)

3. Immediately install an uncorrupted version of Normal Human Personality 1.00. (There is a beta patch for it, but it's not real stable. BELIEVE ME, the last thing you need is more instability.) It will help you with such tricky social interface questions as: "How do I express my opinions in a useful and coherent fashion?" or "How do I prevent people from thinking that I have the IQ of peat moss and the impulse control of a four-year-old?"

By following these 3 simple steps, everyone benefits. We can all go back to enjoying Civ discussions here, without being interrupted by your rants, and you can avoid a future which consists of living in a padded cell, your only human contact being screaming at the nurse before she injects you with your daily dose of Thorazine.

	13-02-2004 00:44									#21
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jt: play SimGolf, I'm sure you won't find this unit problem there.

	13-02-2004 16:19									#22
	Re: Unit limits? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Is there a limit?

As described already, yes.

quote: What kind of problems will I face?

Can't think of any apart from the ones you have come up with already. You have assembled quite a list of problems.

quote: Is there a workaround?

Change your expectations about the game? Otherwise no.

quote: Should I just quit?

YES. For the love of all that is good, YES!

	23-02-2004 08:52									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Tall Stranger jimmytrick: We're sorry, but there is a hard-coded maximum of 4,096 half-witted screeds which can be posted here on the forum. You have grossly exceeded this number. Please follow the steps outlined below to fix this problem: 1. Uninstall Civ3 and all expansion packs. If you continue to play the game, we fear the final tenuous bonds which connect you to the rational world will snap, setting you adrift in a swirling pool of insanity and making you a danger to yourself and others. 2. Halt all contact with individuals and groups related to Civilization or any other Firaxis product. Such contact could result in a return to the deranged mentality demonstrated by most of your postings. Much as an alcoholic must never again drink, you must never again put yourself in a position where your apparent addiction to Firaxis-bashing could reemerge. (If you still feel the need to post, go to the Off-Topic forum. You'll fit right in among some of the wack-jobs over there.) 3. Immediately install an uncorrupted version of Normal Human Personality 1.00. (There is a beta patch for it, but it's not real stable. BELIEVE ME, the last thing you need is more instability.) It will help you with such tricky social interface questions as: "How do I express my opinions in a useful and coherent fashion?" or "How do I prevent people from thinking that I have the IQ of peat moss and the impulse control of a four-year-old?" By following these 3 simple steps, everyone benefits. We can all go back to enjoying Civ discussions here, without being interrupted by your rants, and you can avoid a future which consists of living in a padded cell, your only human contact being screaming at the nurse before she injects you with your daily dose of Thorazine.

That is SERIOUSLY funny! Thanks, TS.

jt... WTF is going on in that game??!! Can you post it? I'm being serious... that almost sounds like an advanced AU challenge. It is surely a game to learn from. Jesu! An AI civ with 1000+ units? Can we say KAI... what were the factors that contributed to its success? At least post some screenies and a description.

[And btw, jt, how come we don;t see you over at AU... I've always thought of you as a top-notch player...]

Re the complaint: I do agree actually, that both the # of city and unit complaints are valid. I don't berate Firaxis for it, however, as it takes the players/users at the far right edge of the bell curve (that's a compliment!) to point out the limitations, and carve out a way towards the future. Uh, Bill Gates, I think, was the one who set the 640k limit in original DOS. He came back OK, and so will Civ.

	23-02-2004 09:06									#24
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Theseus the reason there are these monster KAI's is it is a Sid game.
They get lots of cities and make endless units as they pay nearly no support and the cost factor makes strucures go at the rate of AP game.

	24-02-2004 00:41									#25
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...I could have sworn that it was announced that they'd doubled the limit to 8000+.

At least when I play C3C with a custom map I made w/tons of barbarian camps scattered around I don't seem to run into the limit. In PTW, I'd keep running into the limit about the time of the Industrial era, when the 2nd barbarian uprising starts. Not in C3C.

	24-02-2004 02:47									#26
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I don't se any mention in the booklet or the readme and the game JT posted seems to imply it is not changed.

It would be a problem to change, I woul dguess as 4096 a nice 2 to 12th. To increase it mean a large field is needed. Can be done, but is often a lot of work.

	24-02-2004 02:58									#27
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Look at it from the bright side.

Hittites only have 1,180 units.

Without max unit limit, it could have been 11,180

	24-02-2004 04:46									#28
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I don't se any mention in the booklet or the readme and the game JT posted seems to imply it is not changed. It would be a problem to change, I woul dguess as 4096 a nice 2 to 12th. To increase it mean a large field is needed. Can be done, but is often a lot of work.

All I found is this thread from CivFanatics:

Link

	24-02-2004 05:14									#29
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It would be nice if they doc things. If Bamspeedy says it has been double that is good enough for me.

IIRC JT's complaint is that it has a limit at all. I have not run into it myself.

	24-02-2004 07:08									#30
	Put an end to popups!

well, that's a bit unexpected. And yes, Bamspeedys word is to be trusted. I too wish they would do a much better job documenting changes.