12-02-2004 21:58									#1
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In my current game, I am finding it excessively hard to time my GA using the Swiss Mercenary. At Monarch level play, I am finding the AI reluctant to attack it when it is in stacks with itself, or combined with other units - even as few as two. I have tried two strategies so far which have miserably failed. (1) Moving stacks around hoping to inefficiently use the SM to offensively clean up the very wounded; and (2) Sending single SMs into enemy territory to try to work a defensive win. The gods of Luck and RNG did not smile upon me, not to mention chasing the wounded around with single moving stacks was a farcical game of chase. I have considered using an empty city to lure the AI into a trap, and forcing it to fight its way out of being encircled, but that feels too much like an exploit.

A couple of questions: Will Magellan’s Voyage trigger a GA for the Dutch? And, other than “move up a level to where the AI makes more offensive units” does anyone have a strategy for triggering GAs with defensive units?

	12-02-2004 22:41									#2
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bombard until an archer or longbow is down to 1 hp on grass or plain, then attack with a vet swiss merc

Magellan's will satisfy the seafaring requirement for GA. Can't remember if it did agricultural as well, don't htink so.

	12-02-2004 23:23									#3
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aatw's advice matches my own experience. That is just how I did it in my last game as the Dutch.

The AI seems particularly reluctant to attack your UU if you have not had your GA yet. In my last 2 games I have found the AI initially reluctant to attack Jav Throwers and Swiss Mercs but more inclined to do so once I had triggered my GA.

	13-02-2004 02:27									#4
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I was having terrible luck attacking units down to one hit point (the AI managed to situate itself on favorable terrain and got lucky), but the bombardment technique sounds good. It never entered my mind as I have a tendency to not think about bombardment units before arty comes into play.

	13-02-2004 02:35									#5
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trebuchets aren't bad, neither are cannon. If desperate enough you could wait till you have a frigate

	13-02-2004 04:30									#6
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Well, if he won't attack then just disconnect all his iron and horses. The AI will go for them before or later.

Off course, it could be seen as a fair handicap for the insane powerhouse the Dutch are. (In Civ 3, in real history their gambit for world domination fell a bit short. They ended up with a couple of towns and flood plains _below_ ocean surface level. And global warming about to strike. And I don't think Amsterdam is exactly poised for a 1 city cultural win.)

	13-02-2004 04:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by lethe In Civ 3, in real history their gambit for world domination fell a bit short. They ended up with a couple of towns and flood plains _below_ ocean surface level. And global warming about to strike. And I don't think Amsterdam is exactly poised for a 1 city cultural win.

Depends on your definition of "culture"

	13-02-2004 04:42									#8
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arguably much of amsterdam in reality would create negative culture, but many happy residents.

and man are they a powerful civ, one of my favs.

	13-02-2004 14:38									#9
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel bombard until an archer or longbow is down to 1 hp on grass or plain, then attack with a vet swiss merc Magellan's will satisfy the seafaring requirement for GA. Can't remember if it did agricultural as well, don't htink so.

Magellan's on its own will not kick off your GA. The only Wonders with the Agricultural attribute are the Cure for Cancer, Hanging Gardens, Hoover Dam, Pyramids and Women's Suffrage. You'd need one of these as well.

	13-02-2004 21:19									#10
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It's Universal Suffrage these days MWIA. I refuse to build it on general principles. Giving blacks, women and poor people the vote was a serious mistake. (Ok, so that you all note it well, this was sarcasm! Ok, sarcasm! I am not a reactionary bastard.)

	13-02-2004 22:03									#11
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Magellan's on its own will not kick off your GA. The only Wonders with the Agricultural attribute are the Cure for Cancer, Hanging Gardens, Hoover Dam, Pyramids and Women's Suffrage. You'd need one of these as well.

Along with Magellan’s, Hoover’s huh? I’ve never waited that late to trigger a GA. A GA kicking in at the same time as Hoover’s would be quite a swing. Maybe I should time a mobilization to coincide. But I don’t know if I can wait that long and I hate having my GA triggered for me. With the complete roughshod way I’ve treated all my neighbors (a luxury of having both Zeus and Knights Templar in a Monarch game) there’s no telling when the AI is coming over the hill.

I don’t know that I’ve ever built the Cure for Cancer or Longevity other than a one time one off to see the effects. And for the life of me, I can’t remember where Universal Suffrage falls on the tech chart (Democracy?).

	13-02-2004 22:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by TheArsenal And for the life of me, I can’t remember where Universal Suffrage falls on the tech chart (Democracy?).

Industrialisation.

You are better off trying to get your GA now with your UU.

	14-02-2004 02:24									#13
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There's another option besides UU and waiting for Hoovers.

Capture the closet city that contains an existing Agricultural Wonder first and finish building the Seafaring one second.

Or somewhat less efficent, build the Seafaring one, capture the agricultural one, and then build ANY great wonder, including Shakesphere's which has no traights.