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DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:32
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okay... first time I open the save (Thanks CH for forwarding it). Some remarks...

1. do I miss something, or do we have 13 free units available, not 12 as reported earlier? I'm counting 12 in Eliopolis, and 1 cat in Monsoon.

2. RP mystery... their capital is in disorder? how does something like that happen?

3. Hurricane: I don't know if you changed it already, but whatch out, CH! You're missing 1 turn here: Copernicus can complete in 4 turns, not in 5. All you need to do is switch the sea tile to a mountain, and you will get to 20 spt, enough to do the remaining 79 in 4 turns (meanwhile starving 1fpt).

If you forgot to MM this this turn: it's a pity... the only way to correct it is to sacrifice a worker.

4. as already mentioned in the Smith's Trading thread, we can reach 33 spt in EotS... a pity. I'm not sure if a courthouse could bring that to 34 by avoiding one shield waste, maybe a CH and 2 lux from ND (together with the Cathedral about to complete) might do the trick.

5. Arashi is also able to get to 33 spt with RR... but at the expense of quite a few cities...

6. Could someone tell me how F11 looks? That button on my keyboard has broken (toegether with the PgUp and PgDn ones), I can't access it. It's a bit silly to buy a new keyboard for 3 buttons you hardly ever use, right

The reason why I'm interested is that it seems like we've got a lot more culture (maybe even double) generated per turn then Lego has... I wonder how many libs they have. They have 24-25 cities (if they don't live on a doughnut), with a pop a little higher then ours... it would be interesting to estimate their bpt.

7. Inchon would indeed be better of with a CH, instead of a harbor. A market would also be nice... to get into WLTKD. I would build those two before a harbor... probably the CH first as it is cheaper.

8. how long will it take for Lego to complete Sistine (if they go for it, of course)? 3 turns? 2? 4 maybe? They can make 35 or 36 spt, after waste. Let's hope they pick Sistine and not Copernicus (which would seem strange, as they could have build it already), or switch to Smith's. And let's hope it's more then 2 turns, as otherwise our prebuilds get messed up.

9. did we knew already Lego had econ? Otherwise I've been setting scientists for nothing

10. a lot of our cities could get into WLTKD with 2 more lux, or 1 more lux + colisseum. maybe we should consider that for pay from ND.

11. Please make sure one thing never happens: that our prebuild city for ToE is exposed. You can start the palace there right now for all I care. The moment one of the older wonders is used, people will know which city to investigate.

12. similar, I would set Tempest to a GLib prebuild after it completes Newton's (hopefully), maybe after a few turns pauze. And before any shields are lost, change it to a bank... if later teams want to investigate, they will chose Tempest before Arashi (hopefully).

13. As I played with the tiles a bit, I'm not sure how Arashi was arranged. However, I'm sure it can produce more: add one worker, and set the others to work 3 floodplains, all the hills reachable, 3 mountains and 3 grass (1 bonus). This means one grass needs to be mined, instead of irr. We need to max this city even more then Hurricane, otherwise the ToE is going to take a lot longer then the 19 or 20 turns we need to get to SM. It should not affect Tempest's eta to Newton (which might BTW be changed to Cop in 3 turns, as it will complete 1 turn faster)

14. To be sure we, we probably need to get steam asap, meaning running a large deficit, as long as we can get the tech in 5 turns... the more time we have to build RRs, the better. And please, RNG, give us coal!


That's about it for the moment... It seems to me we're at

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:46
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3. According to a plan I posted on the Smiths thread 'excel screenie', it can use the mountain again next turn and complete in 4. It had to borrow 5 turns of food from EotS.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:47
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9. Yes, we knew Lego had econ

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:48
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10. Maybe we could get some Lux from ND via tech trades.

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:49
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maybe physics would be worth 600 gold and a lux?

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:50
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2. RP Disorder - sad, isn't it?

Thanks for all the comments - I'll say more later

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
3. According to a plan I posted on the Smiths thread 'excel screenie', it can use the mountain again next turn and complete in 4. It had to borrow 5 turns of food from EotS.

okay, I should see to that plan before further commenting, but it looks to me you should have switched this turn, not the next... maybe I'm just not counting right, that happens more

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 01:59
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15. I count 111 tiles of Lego coast, up to Vox territory. However... as you need to sail for several turns in their inner sea to get to about 10 tiles, they only need to permanently block 100 of them, not all 111. For the moment, they have no reason whatsoever to have anything over a NM or a horse (apart from the 20-odd knights we spotted earlier), so a full sea wall is surely possible given their average strength to us!

I started disbanding units, to see where we stand. With one disbanded MI, we became weak... that means their force is about 25% stronger then ours. My guess is there never will be any possibility to invade Lego, or we should go through Vox.

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 02:19
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO

okay, I should see to that plan before further commenting, but it looks to me you should have switched this turn, not the next... maybe I'm just not counting right, that happens more

DeepO


:sweat:

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 02:25
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{EDIT : Purged from History}

Last edited by Cort Haus on 19-02-2004 at 22:22

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 02:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
:sweat:



okay, something else that might please you: it is still possible to get it in 4, even if I'm right and you're one shield off. currently, Hurricane is at 17 spt, 1 fpt, 4 food and 321 shields in box. So:

- next turn that leaves 62 shields to go, with 5 excess food.
switch to one mountain for 22 spt, -3fpt.

- turn after, 40 shields to go, 2 excess food.
mine two of the used irr plains (make sure 6 workers are available!), or one plain, and the grass. Use those two tailes instead of the mountain for 20 spt, -1 fpt.

- two turns later, you finish with exactly the amount of shields needed, and no food in the box. Talk about timing

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 02:58
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Argh... sorry about the above... I just recalculated, and you're right... my method doesn't bring you the required shields, you're does. After next turn, two turns with 1 mountain, and once with 2 mountains.

If we want to nit-pick, you lose one food like that, as switching this turn would have brought you the required shields, with one more food, but that's okay. As long as we get there, I'm not complaining

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 03:01
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BTW: If we miss by some chance one of the science wonders, do we detour for econ? Or... even sneakier... would we steal it?

DeepO

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 03:03
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
I started disbanding units, to see where we stand. With one disbanded MI, we became weak... that means their force is about 25% stronger then ours. My guess is there never will be any possibility to invade Lego, or we should go through Vox.


That's what I've been thinking. The only way onto lego is through trickeration. And I have not a clue as to how GoWND are going to pull that off. I wonder what will happen if we show up from both sides but none can grab a foothold.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
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Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 03:05
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I'll tell you what will happen: the Lego's will die laughing... leaving all their land free for us to claim. We better just put settlers on those boats

DeepO

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 03:07
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
I'll tell you what will happen: the Lego's will die laughing... leaving all their land free for us to claim. We better just put settlers on those boats

DeepO


it will be horribly embarrassing. i just hope the sting remains until mrines so we arent the target...

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 03:09
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Got spare money?

Once espionage is ready, there is another problem, or maybe a smart trick we could use. Does anybody have any idea if propaganda works? You don't need marines to conquer a city, if you can buy it...

From the civilopedia, it seems that only the city in which a spy is planted can be turned, but as you most of the times plant a spy in the capital, that's no use, of course. Would it be possible to turn a small harbor city, with transports one turn away?

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 04:22
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
Does anybody have any idea if propaganda works?

DeepO


Our cultural strength could help here.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 05:08 Visit Trip's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
I started disbanding units, to see where we stand. With one disbanded MI, we became weak... that means their force is about 25% stronger then ours. My guess is there never will be any possibility to invade Lego, or we should go through Vox.

This is a banned tactic, as it involves manipulating the save in a way that cannot be undone later. It'd be similar to moving a ship towards Lego to see if they had a naval screen up, then Cort not actually moving it in the turn he plays. It gives you information you shouldn't have unless you're fully willing to commit to the first action (that is, actually disbanding as many units as did).

A general rule... if you can't undo it, don't do it unless that's the official turn you plan on sending.

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 05:59
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whoops


thanks for the notice big guy.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 14:15
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Wow... sorry about that

You see what happens if you give me the save? I guess this was not that bad a transgression, the first unit Lego would build, we have the same results... but still, I'm sorry to have unwillingly 'cheated'.

DeepO

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 21:10
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Guys - I'd edit the above posts, removing the information gleened from what DeepO did and do your best to forget it.

It cannot be undone, but with everything else going on, we probably will forget about it, and it's best not to have the info lying around.

Dunno, maybe I'm just grasping at straws here...

-Arrian

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 22:24
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OK, I've purged my reference to that thing that never happened.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
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Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 22:31
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I'm not sure, guys. I mean, I made a mistake... nobody is going to forget it, but deleting it now seems like we would try to cover it up, and that is not the case. I am hoping though that Lego builds one miserable unit next turn, so that we get the same analysis, only 1 turn later, and without any cheating...

DeepO

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 19-02-2004 23:08
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It's not covering it up: The EYE saw it. He knows about it.

The question is whether or not he feels we ought to disclose our mistake to the other teams?

In the grand scheme of things, this is probably pretty minor, and we know it wasn't intentional or anything.

-Arrian

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 00:34
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Not to be coniving or anything, but for all we know it has been done by others and they never mentioned how they came to the conclusions.

IOW anyone could do the same thing and never mentioned anything but the F3 results. It is not exactly going to make a difference in what we do next anyway. So we now know not to do it.

 
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