17-02-2004 15:34									#1
	Turn 177 - 620AD Inflate your Upload Space

Lego have built Magellan in Jackson, and have commenced their GA.

	17-02-2004 15:38									#2
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Good... sort of. Do we spend time on Smith, or assume Lego is going to build it in Legopolis next turn?

At least we should remember this date: on turn 176, Lego can have switched from a bank to a palace prebuild, which in their GA is adding 30+ shields towards a wonder...

So, from now on, they're on 4-turn research. How many techs are left for them in the med era?

Oh, it does make our naval defense a bit harder, of course... if at all possible, I would love to conquer Jackson if we go to Legoland.

DeepO

	17-02-2004 16:08									#3
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Since Lego have conspicously failed to announce the completion of Magellans or the start of their GA, should we mention it to our 'allies'? I'd say yes, since they should notice anyway on their turn, but we'd just help them out in case they might overlook it. But thought I should check here before posting anything to ND.

	17-02-2004 16:19									#4
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Yeah let's mention it, Vulture - the news will encourage them to strike soon.

Lego are still short of Physics, Magnetism and ToG. If they fear war they'll want Mil Trad and Nat too. That should soak up most of their GA research-wise, leaving them a ton of money for the war.

Without war they can finish Physics in 1-2 turns, then Mag, Tog, Vox's freebie + Steam/Med, Electricity and Sci Meth in about 22 turns - exactly the same as us.

	17-02-2004 16:21									#5
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We can offer Physics unaccepted to ND this turn, to see what cash they offer.

	17-02-2004 16:32									#6
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I could either rattle the turn off this lunchtime or we can sit on it if we feel we need time for diplo to keep up with turnplay and allow planning (mainly by gownd).

If we do another long turn, it raises Lego's suspicions of war. If this gets them blocking their coast, not so good. If it sends them down the Mil Trad route, then good.

	17-02-2004 16:43									#7
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We also have Metallurgy from GoW. They'll have the 200g they owe us after they've got Mil Trad. (see chat)

	17-02-2004 16:57									#8
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Here are the three northern galleys.

As RP still haven't told us their unit plans we don't know whether we'll be needing them around as shields to guard the wall when our units withdraw. (They cause us such headaches by not answering questions. I put five points in a PM to them, and they'll answer one of them.)

Or, they carry on exploring the north.

Or, they all head for Blizzard to be used in the war.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=18997_620galleys.jpg

Hmmm. Apoltyons wonderful new file upload system no longer displays pictures in IMG tags. Brilliant.

	17-02-2004 17:08									#9
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CH, leave the turn... better to not speed along when we need the time, or our 'allies' need it.

galleys: I think we should send at least 2 of them exploring. It's the same as with the rest of the troops: we can't let the Lego invasion bother the rest of our plans. Finding a resource on a 4-tile island might be such a plan... so let them explore, and hope for a small but important patch of land somewhere.

Hurricane can build galleons once we need them, if we don't have them in time, we'll have to delay the war a little... it's as easy as that. We've got 11 turns at least before they get Nat (if Vox gets it as a freebie), most likely 15 or more (detour to Mil Trad). They will have enough gold to upgrade, so it's better if GoW/ND attacks before that time, and we afterwards...

DeepO

	17-02-2004 17:36									#10
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:sigh: another 20 minutes spent writing PM's to RP to ignore ... here's a draft (with much effort spent hiding my annoyance).

quote: Hi Arnelos / Togas, Could you please give us an indication of what your unit plans are so we can decide how to use the 3 galleys around Spain, and plan our unit capacity for involvement in the possible strike on Lego. Lego have just built Magellans and are on their GA. We don't intend on sending a large force, as we are committed to building for the time being - but we need to send something to get NDGOW to attack. With regard to the suggestion of backstabbing NDGOW and invading Bob instead - this was not felt by GS to be the best option, for many reasons. We see the time to reclaim Spain on BOB as further down the road after Lego has been weakened, and while GoW-ND are fighting each other. Regards, Cort

	17-02-2004 22:38									#11
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Message to RP modified slightly for extra politeness, and sent.

	17-02-2004 22:55									#12
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Glad to see that. I was thinking we do not need to ruffle feathers over there. They owe, but people do not like to be reminded.

	17-02-2004 22:57									#13
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Hmph. Never would have happened in the good old days. Benig polite to RP was something only traitors did.

	17-02-2004 23:05									#14
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quote: Originally posted by vulture Since Lego have conspicously failed to announce the completion of Magellans or the start of their GA, should we mention it to our 'allies'? I'd say yes, since they should notice anyway on their turn, but we'd just help them out in case they might overlook it. But thought I should check here before posting anything to ND.

Hell, I think it would be funny to post something like this in the "who has the save" thread.

Let GS be the first to congratulate the people of Legoland for entering their golden age. And with the completion of the Sistine Chapel in 4 turns or so, Legoland will pull even with Gathering Storm in wonders built


Letting Lego know that we know exactly what they've done and what they're doing as far as Sistine is concerned.

	17-02-2004 23:10									#15
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Saying Sistine ends in 4 might be a bit too much... They know we've established an embassy, but there is no need to tell them we shared this information to GoW and ND.

DeepO

	17-02-2004 23:32									#16
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Start

GoW send Metallurgy
Cyclone completes worker, starts another


Moves

cats shuffle north
galley W. of spain moves south
N. galley moves north
E galley moves east
2 S. galleys move toward Blizzard
Workers near EotS move toward iron mkt to build fortification
Fort complete at Blizz-3, start another at Blizz-32
Workers in midlands start fort at Diss-2
Inchon now size 6, set taxman for all happy and WLTK next turn. We might consider a Courthouse instead of a Harbor here.
Adjust Sandstorm for worker & growth next turn


Current Builds

from North to South :

Eli : Lib in 1
Inchon : Harb in 13
WoC : CH in 3
Inchoff : Harb in 12
Diss : Courthouse in 5
Santa Ana : Lib in 10
Blizzard : Harb in 6
Monsoon : Mkt in 4
Arashi : ToE prebuild in ~22 via Bank (2)
WW : Aqua in 10
Tempest : Newton in 6
Hurricane : Copernicus in 5
OG : Lib in 1
EotS : Cathedral in 2
BB : Bank in 6
Tornado : CH in 5
Typhoon : Lib in 10
Sufa : Lib in 7
Cyclone & Sandstorm : Worker-pumps


City Sizes

Eli : 6
Inchon : 6
WoC : 6
Inchoff : 6
Diss : 11
Santa Ana : 6
Blizzard : 11
Monsoon : 11
Arashi : 11
WW : 6
Tempest : 11
Hurricane :12
OG : 11
EotS : 12
BB : 12
Tornado : 11
Typhoon : 11
Sufa : 11
Cyclone & Sandstorm : 4-5


Diplo

Sent Physics to ND unnacepted



Other

313g. ToG in 3 turns @ 70% (418bpt) -3gpt
2nd in Pop, GNP, Mfg, Lit, Prod
3rd in Income


Next Turn

WW should switch WF from sea to Incense to complete remaining 42 is 7t at 6spt for no waste.
Typhoon should shortrush 1s via Longbowman to be at 40s, 5spt
Workers at Blizz-3 assist those at Blizz-23

	17-02-2004 23:37									#17
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OK, turn saved. Question is, when to send it. We could ask GoW whether they'd rather the time, or the message to Lego that maybe GS aren't up to something.

	18-02-2004 01:00									#18
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Exchange with Arnelos - see log.

	18-02-2004 01:03									#19
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Turn sent.

	18-02-2004 04:22									#20
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Two replies from Togas - see log. One touches on the point Arnelos made today.

First : They've dropped the backstab line, in favour of angling for land on Bob in return for GS/RP co-operation against Lego. This is not very realistic, but as we haven't spelled out to RP the modest scale of our intended force yet, they can be forgiven for misjudging the value of our contribution. No matter.

Second : more interestingly, they are on a program of building Marketplaces and Banks $$$, rather than units. This confirms the rather tiny composition of our disposable forces - about 12 units in total. Lets go and invade Lego with 12 units

3 empty galleys might be as good though - if Lego were to sink them. And if they weren't empty - well, at least that's another 15gpt for our lean, mean, commercial machine. I almost like the idea of Lego sinking 3 empty galleys off their coast though, giving us war-joy and fullfilling our obligations to GAUL.

As for Markets and Banks - good. They'll be able to churn more gpt for us, and we will one day inherit them. We might ask for some courthouses before handover, though, so we can actually use the banks before building our FP in Eliopolis.

	18-02-2004 06:13									#21
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I concur... today's exchanges have been fine.

I wouldn't be surprised, however, if NDGoW require a bit more of a commitment... in which case we might need RP to build at least a few more units for their seawall, mixed in with their commerce builds.

	18-02-2004 06:25									#22
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I sent an outline to Togas (see log) of where we stand - hoping that it might help get their thinking in line with ours, rather than the somewhat incompatible ideas that they have been suggesting. It included a vision of how they might use their UU against ND in the future.

	18-02-2004 06:38									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I concur... today's exchanges have been fine. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if NDGoW require a bit more of a commitment... in which case we might need RP to build at least a few more units for their seawall, mixed in with their commerce builds.

We can offer valuable Intel on Lego cities - using the cash from tech sales to ND - as further contribution, and stress the value of our threat to Lego to divert troops from east to west.

We could spit out some cats soon from a number of cities to free up more knights from the wall, and our explorer galleys could eventually bring capacity up to 20, so we could be prepared to go as high as 20 units.

It's not worth RP building units until we get our galleys back to enable tile-swapping on the wall. Faux wars with cats are a possibility, but messy.

	18-02-2004 07:06									#24
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I would think only two changes exist for RP to get on Bob. Slim and None and slim just left town.

What the best hope is that we can relocate them to Lego.

I sure believe GoW/BD will want more from us, but it cold come in forms other than units.

	18-02-2004 14:46									#25
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Maybe we need to do that: set 20 units for the task. Those then would not make more cavs, but more pikes / muskets... if we are to gamble we have coal, EotS can safely build 1 or 2 without getting into trouble with the Hoover prebuild.

BTW, nothing has been communicated with GoW after last chat? Maybe we need some... telling them that in principle we agree, but we can't risk too much in this endeavour, and would prefer logistical support instead of full-out military cooperation.

DeepO

	18-02-2004 15:05									#26
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO BTW, nothing has been communicated with GoW after last chat? Maybe we need some... telling them that in principle we agree, but we can't risk too much in this endeavour, and would prefer logistical support instead of full-out military cooperation. DeepO

Erm, I've sent this and this since the chat.

I asked about their intended KO time - that's reasonable if we are to plan our options, so the ball is in their court.

	18-02-2004 15:05									#27
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(KO = Kick Off, not Knock Out)

	18-02-2004 15:41									#28
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yeah, that's what I meant, but didn't word right... I mean we hadn't got any communication _from_ GoW, right? our plans keep evolving, all we can do is to keep them up to date.

I'm a bit worried there hasn't been anything from them...

DeepO

	18-02-2004 15:46									#29
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO I'm a bit worried there hasn't been anything from them... DeepO

Yes, I'd have hoped for something by now. Time for a nudge later today, methinks.

	18-02-2004 21:26									#30
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Sent a nudge to GoW. (MZ, UnO cc Aggie). Also to MZ by his hotmail email as his PM box is full.