18-02-2004 20:32									#1
	SGLs & custom tech trees Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I don't do much editing, but I've read a lot about people making their on tech trees, sometimes having custom techs for certain civs or having a civ with entirely its own tech tree.

Other than Civ3 having to be "kludged" into making these possible (by giving a free tech), this wasn't a 'problem' in PTW.

However, I am thinking about this in C3C. With the advent of SGLs, would not each of these one-civ-only techs count as "first discovered" in terms of creating an SGL?

	18-02-2004 23:23									#2
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I just threw together a test scenario, made up a tree of techs named 1-0, Each tech had the previous as a prereq, and had the 'cannot be traded' 'not required for era advance' flags set. 2-0 were "Ancient" era and 1 was "none". I also lowered the minimum turns to 1 just to hasten my testing.

I assigned tech 1 as a starting tech to a scientific civ, and ran through it in a game with preserve random off just in case. I researched 2-7 and I was starting to wonder. Then, with tech 8, a SGL appeared.

So, is it possible, I wonder, to set a tech so it does not trigger a SGL? If people try to create custom tech trees, SGLs would probably have to be disabled if they can't be, else there would be an unusual number of them.

I know techs from goody huts can't generate SGLs, but what about Philosophy and Darwin's?

	19-02-2004 02:06									#3
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quote: Originally posted by MqsTout So, is it possible, I wonder, to set a tech so it does not trigger a SGL? If people try to create custom tech trees, SGLs would probably have to be disabled if they can't be, else there would be an unusual number of them.

SGL's happen so rarely that I don't think it's really an issue. I've played a number of games now that I was in the tech lead, and I think I've only seen one so far. If you're really that concerned about it, on the units page there's a flag that you uncheck from a leader unit regarding Scientific Leaders.

	19-02-2004 19:34									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

They aren't so rare when every tech of a custom tech tree is 'first discovered' therefore possible for a SGL. That greatly increases the SGL chance, when every tech you get has the 3-5% chance.

	20-02-2004 00:38									#5
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quote: Originally posted by MqsTout I know techs from goody huts can't generate SGLs, but what about Philosophy and Darwin's?

both can generate SGLs

And I see your point, if you are the only nation able to research certain techs, I can see how that would up your chances at generation.

	20-02-2004 02:25									#6
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel And I see your point, if you are the only nation able to research certain techs, I can see how that would up your chances at generation.

But if other civs have exclusive techs as well, that evens things out.

	20-02-2004 04:45									#7
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It'd really destroy the race to build great wonders.

	20-02-2004 13:36									#8
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True, but then again if you're the only civ building certain wonders because its a wonder exclusive to you...

	20-02-2004 23:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by MqsTout It'd really destroy the race to build great wonders.

The trick is to have a good mix of Wonders, some that are civ specific and some that are open to competition. If done right it could make for a dynamic game; not only would you be dealing with a civ's UUs, but you'd also be up against a wonder that gives them a specific advantage. And using government specific wonders, and/or making them obsolete with a certain tech, you could arrange it so that this advantage only occurs for a short while.

	21-02-2004 17:56									#10
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SGLs????

Pardon my ignoance but what are they?

	23-02-2004 02:16									#11
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quote: Originally posted by PaulWilliams SGLs???? Pardon my ignoance but what are they?

Scientific Great Leaders, a new leader type in Conquests. They're sometimes, though very rarely, created if you're first in researching a tech. They allow you to either rush build a Great Wonder or increase your research rate by 25%. Military Great Leaders can now only rush Small Wonders or create an Army.

	23-02-2004 02:22									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

MGL can rush structures and units IIRC. Nearly anything except great wonders.

	24-02-2004 01:46									#13
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 MGL can rush structures and units IIRC. Nearly anything except great wonders.

Yeah right. I think it's a waste to use Leaders for those sorts of things so I never think of using them that way.

	24-02-2004 02:22									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It is not common for me either. It can come in handy during an IC. You can rush an airport with one. I have used them to rush a battleship in some conditions.
Mostly after having many armies and the MA built.

	25-02-2004 03:11									#15
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They can give a civ a nice jump if used to rush a wonder. What you can do, is to disable the SGL's ability to rush buildings. This way, he can only be used to increase science a bit. You might think it's still unfair, but life contains luck, right?

	26-02-2004 00:06									#16
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I'd only do that though if you disable the same for military...

	29-02-2004 01:51									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Actually considering the usual time you get scientific leaders is when you (probably the player) have a lead, the point of the leader is to continue to build that lead, not to maintain, but to extend it. This way, so long as you would have some balance on special techs or tech trees, each civ would have chances to keep up or advance a lead. This would make a bit of balance.

As far as I can tell you can disable the rush building, but it appears to be for both military and scientific leaders. I'm not sure how unwanted this would be, personally I wouldn't suffer much. Armies and science ages are definitely almost as good as some wonders anyway. Getting that FP up fast is sorta useful though.