23-02-2004 09:31									#1
	Playing Forward and Banning Unit Warping Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

GWT has agreed to Apolyton's original policy of playing forward without alteration of earlier actions AND of banning all future use of unit warping. They have also pledged to forgo the use of exploits in the future if other teams do likewise.

Apolyton and CGN had been moving to support GWT's original proposal of replaying the game from an earlier date (390 A.D. preferred by Apolyton and CGN) and had agreed with GCA to disband some of their units as part of the compromise before this deal fell apart.

Do you, the Senate, approve of Apolyton saying that we accept that the game should move on from the latest played turn (without replaying or undoing any earlier actions) and that all unit warping shall be strictly banned in the future?

It should be assumed that the War Weariness issue must be resolved under ANY case, so for purposes of this poll that is a seperate issue.

	23-02-2004 09:53									#2
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I say we should get reparations from GCA's teleport.

GCA tied their compromise/negotiation of reparations to the GWT/CGN deal. I say we keep it seperate. Are GCA and GWT one team? No. Likewise, neither are CGN and APO. We deserve a seperate forum to deal with what has happened in the past.

If GWT wants reparations for CGN's jump, let them negotiate one.

Else, we should keep teleporting in the game.

Despite how really annoying it is and how much I would like it out of the game; it is still a part of the game until reparations are made for the previous occurance. Then, and only then, would I vote in favor of making teleportations illegal.

	23-02-2004 09:59									#3
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Of course. We don't have any legit argument for them to continue to NOT PLAY THE GAME.

GWT stopped playing out of protest. If they start up, are we, in turn, going to halt our play and start up our own protest?

Frankly, I'd like for us to keep on Lucky and get him to, if nothing else, finally end this laughable war between us, but I do not think we should halt the game any further to do so.

We need to keep up our public pressure on GCA and make it clear that Apolyton did this to make a point, and now that the point is made and acknowledged, we'd like to put it to rest by RESOLVING the issue.

Lucky was on the right track with his settlement proposals. Don't let him slip away now that GWT has changed their mind.

--Togas

	23-02-2004 10:02									#4
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Let's play. The issue with GCA is separate, but let's get it done too.

	23-02-2004 10:25									#5
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if the game is on, I don't think we'll get far with reparations. Lucky has argued that compensation for their jump is allowing the Poly/CGN jump and that no reparations are in order.

He only agreed to repay us if we replayed from before the Poly/CGN jump something that is out of the question now...

	23-02-2004 10:29									#6
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MZ is right. There's no chance in hell of getting anything from GCA now.

Hell, Lucky wants Theology and our two cities just for peace and their units in the lake gone now...

	23-02-2004 11:27									#7
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So then what? Are we going to sink the galley and wait 5 turns or wait until the current 5 turns is up? If Lucky tries to be annoying again he can of course say that we have two cities on 'his' continent so we can wage war. That's obviously crap, but he already said it once.

	23-02-2004 11:49									#8
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Considering we will be able to sink his pesky galley this next turn, I say we do it. That galley will only cause trouble. Plus, if GWT takes our two cities we get positive WW which can counter those 5 extra turns of WW we get from sinking the GCA galley.

	23-02-2004 12:58									#9
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Have we stood up and said we won't pass the save until GCA gives us reparations?

Why is it considered too late to ask for this now?

Let me state some facts:

1. All teams want to make teleporting illegal.

2. GCA benefited heavily from teleporting in the past.

3. If all teams agree that teleporting is illegal, from here on out, then APO is not allowed to do what GCA has already done.


Given the fact that all teams want to make it illegal to do teleports; meaning that we can't do it anymore, then why should we allow GCA to reap the benefits of an action and then turn around and make that action illegal so we can no longer use that action to possibly help us in the future?


Either we allow all teleports or we disallow all teleports.


This can be acomplished by GCA disbanding their units. GWT and CGN can come to their own compromise. Once compromises have been reached, that deal with the after effects of teleports that have already occured, then we can outlaw them.

To outlaw teleportation now, to take away a possible action/option from our strategy while allowing GCA to fully benefit from the same action in the past is ridiculous.

We don't have to be stuck with mongoose's previous ruling because all teams have already agreed that teleporting should be banned.

	23-02-2004 13:54									#10
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree 3. If all teams agree that teleporting is illegal, from here on out, then APO is not allowed to do what GCA has already done.

Umm, have you not read that we WON'T be replaying, thus our teleporting with CGN will go through?

	23-02-2004 14:37									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Umm, have you not read that we WON'T be replaying, thus our teleporting with CGN will go through?

Umm, that helped CGN really.

	23-02-2004 14:41									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Considering we will be able to sink his pesky galley this next turn, I say we do it. That galley will only cause trouble. Plus, if GWT takes our two cities we get positive WW which can counter those 5 extra turns of WW we get from sinking the GCA galley.

Ban Warping

What trouble could that galley cause exactly ?
Other than causing 5 more turns of WW that we could easily avoid ?

	23-02-2004 17:59									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Hell, Lucky wants Theology and our two cities just for peace and their units in the lake gone now...

WHAT?!

For the poll, accept it. We are no worse off than if this mess hadn't started and we'd just kept rolling the turns, and with a ban on teleportation we may actually be better off.

Other things, like GCA, must not tie up continuing with the game at hand. We have to deal with them separately, and cautiously. Peace is IMO an attainable goal. Disbanding units of theirs, whilst certainly desirable, may be too much to hope for. But let's find that out when play is continuing, for Banana's sake.

	23-02-2004 18:24									#14
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Realistically we are not going to get anything from Lucky anymore.

We need to kill that galley and then shed those CGN cities somehow, and 5 turns later get peace.

Even if the galley goes to Davy Jones Locker, Lucky can say we have cities on the other continent and war is possible.

Thats why I have been saying all along playing on is not the best nor the right solution although I understand why we are now doing it.

Lucky is a snake and he can stand behind Mongooses ruling.

Let the diplomatic quagmire from unit teleportation continue

	23-02-2004 21:55									#15
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Once the CGN cities are out of the picture and we're alreay at war with GWT, it should be a relatively simple matter to agree to make peace with GWT in return for GCA making peace with us. We may not even have to wait 5 turns unless we WANT to wait 5 turns (since negative GWT WW would be helping us alleviate the GCA WW).