23-02-2004 11:44									#1
	WAR 550bc Got spare money?

Umm .. We are in trouble

quote: Team Monkey: You may or may not be suprised to see a rather large stack of Pythonian herring-armed swordsmen next to your city Bonobo. This is not mistake nor mirage nor game error - we are there to attack. We have nothing personal against your team - this is a game decision we feel we must execute to stregthen our position. Thank you, Octavian X Supreme Despot for Life, Castle of Loimbard.

It's a big stack too...
I count about
17 swordsmen
5 horsemen
3 spearmen
And a couple of workers.

I suggest we retreat.


Dont be in a rush to play the save... I want to have a good look at it.
They want to set off our GA.
I want to make them march all the way to our core before they get the chance.

But I need time to study the map

	23-02-2004 16:06									#2
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OK…Here are my thoughts.

No wonder CoD was never worried about the Pythons huge military.
They must have been planning this for a long time.
There is simply no reason for Python to attack us, other than to be CoD’s *****es.

I think they are crazy to think they can roll us. We have NM’s. They will pay dearly every time they attempt to attack a city.
So I think their goal will be to just start up our GA while we are in a Despoticism.
I therefore want to make sure this is as hard for them to do as possible.

We cannot get enough units north, to protect any of our cities. We must accept the fact we are going to lose Mandril, Bonobo, Capuchin.
The question is… do we want to make a stand at Siamang ? or do we retreat back to our core? We do not have to answer this straight away….but I am thinking, all the way to our core.

So… here is my suggestions

Declare war on CoD immediately. They just let the entire Python army march through their territory. Don’t kid ourselves.. we are facing two enemies. CoD is the only one with a embassy however, and will be doing the spying for Python. The save says that Python & CoD are at war… but I think this is a fake war. They are sharing resources, and are cutting supply. Or its even possible, that CoD are building catapults, and are letting Pythin take them.
We declare war, by killing their scout. (1)

We retreat our settler…its just another city we will have to defend or disband later (2)

Get the warriors North as fast as possible. They are going to have to defend our territory, while our NM’s retreat south to our core. (3)

Move our NM back to cover Macaque (4)

Leave the 2 NMs in PC
2 in Baboon
1 in Chimpanzee

Furry in Siamang attacks a barb horseman
If he wins, Get Manny the chimp to kill the next barb horseman
If he wins, get our elite NM to kill the last horseman.
It’s a gamble, but we have to clear our retreat of barb horsemen (5)

Jojo moves west under the protection of the merc & worker
Ranger nik from Bonobo moves south west to the same tile as Jojo.
stop the worker from building a mine
Fortify the NM protecting him. (6)

That leaves mandrill unprotected for now.
Leave the NM in Cupuchin…he cant make it back to the road network before the python horsemen get there.

Abandon Bonobo. **groan**
Then get Cheeta the warrior to pillage the road network after the city is gone.
This will force Python to build 2 roads through jungle to get to us.
I have faith in Cheetah to kill a few swords before he falls to their hoard
This forces Python to attack our warrior and declare war on us.

Move our galleys North again..we need them to help us in the evacuation.
Our Northern galley must move North ..it is going to pick up our merc stuck in Capuchin. (7)

Switch all our builds to NM’s except..
Capuchin .. switch to wealth..we might as well get 1 or 2 gold before disband it.
Change Caps workforce to a taxman for even 1 extra gold ??
Do the same with Mandril..although we could switch to warrior ??
It will be out in 2 turns…so I doubt it will finish the build.

The question is in Siamang. Do we make our stand there ???
If so…switch the build to walls.
If not, then switch to archer.

I am still not sure what we should do.
A lot depends on CoD & Python, and their goals for the war.
They cant destroy us easily.
But maybe all they want to do is start up our GA ?
Maybe they just want to trim us a little, to ensure we will always remain a minor power. (As if we aren’t one already)

I don’t really know….I guess we can decide later on where our stand will be. I suggest we keep building a temple in Simang, for now, and see what happens next turn.

And just so you are clear what I am doing…
We can retreat our NM to Siamang pretty easily.
(The Merc from Bonobo is the only one which may not make it…we may have to disband him if we want to protect our GA)
The Merc from Capuchan can retreat to the galley that is heading his way.
The Northern warriors may have to be sacrificed to pillage roads.
We retreat all the way back to Siamang or our core, where we are reasonably safe.

If all else fails, we can transport ourselves to monkey islands (Using our 2 galleys), and whatever units we can save. and forever be a thorn in the side of CoD & Python

	23-02-2004 16:06									#3
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http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=21934_550bc_retreat.jpg

	23-02-2004 16:13									#4
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And finally ...

There is either another island out there with Iron ... or they have contact with another civ who has traded it to them.

I have looked at our map and see none.
{clear - map] Hide everything except resources

Given that CoD was only willing to give us their territory may, I think they must have an island somewhere.

	23-02-2004 17:30									#5
	Remove this text

H_E - I am glad you are on our team.

I like the plan. The kicker was when I told them we were 20 turns from democracy. We - mor precisely - I got suckered. So - I like your idea of pulling back. I will need to study the save as well to see if Siamang is do-able.

And we may need to consider some pop-rushing as well. And - we may want to consider cutting some forests (groan) to speed up some builds as well.

And - I will start quite the diplomatic campaign right away - to see if we can drive a wedge between the two. From Python's perspective - this war is very silly. They were better off to take our offer.

I will not touch the save until 6pm or so today. But H_E - if you want to play it - go for it.

	23-02-2004 17:31									#6
	Remove this text

Oh and btw - I sent them a response to their e-mail;

"So I guess a tech deal is out of the question. "

	24-02-2004 03:56									#7
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Holy the end of our civilization BATman!!!!!!!

And to think I was going to post today that I dont think we should trade Mysticism to Python.

We need a dispatch to CoD as well.

Beta please post your dispatch to Python and then Ill work one up for CoD.

And thanks for filling in on the diplo front.

Pillage everything you can as we go down the pennisula.

I will be surprised if CoD stays out of this.

Or maybe they have a deal worked with Python wher we will be Python's second core.

Well I understand now why they didn't want to talk border issues.

"Oh Python is just helping us develop the silk corridor"

Ya right. Cod is in on this big time.

	24-02-2004 04:07									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Beta From Python's perspective - this war is very silly. They were better off to take our offer.

Not necessarily from Pythons point of view. If this gets them a second core, they could have a VERY GOOD reason. Especially since they already have a deal with CoD for Republic, they probably ALREADY have it and they probably got it early on a loan from CoD.

Also I dont think you would need 17 swordsman to trigger our GA and prune, with 5 horses and three spearman thats a heel of a stack

Thats why I think its extinction time.

And if it is bad we bunker on the Horse island and put perpetual war weariness on Python.

Heck I ought to play for GCA

Really I got a feeling its because of the cramped conditions and this is a way to probably get a second core for both. (They must have a plan for that and knowing Arrian its planned down to the littlest detail.)

Lets give them a fight that will be remembered in the annals of Simianhood forever.

Actually Im not surprised being the poor second cousin was bound to be our downfall sooner or later.

Ah well, lets make it fun while it lasts

	25-02-2004 05:18									#9
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I got hold of Dominae today, and asked if he wanted to join our team as a "consultant" and help us fight the war.

Dominaes expertise and sheer knowledge of Civ3 would be of an enormous help to us.

Problem is..

He told me, that he had already "consulted" for CoD in the early stages of the game, and helped them with their early rex phase.
He says he knows their territory & city locations..but thats it.
He knew I was from Monkey, but did not know even where our location was to CoD within the game.

Given that we already know CoD's territory, then we are not going to learn anything new.

So..I would like to get him on board..but we should ask CoD first.
Does anyone have any objections ?

I am sending PM to CoD now... but just say, if you disagree.

Regs

	25-02-2004 05:24									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

I will post this here and then erase it.

he is knowledgable, and he is good, but I cant stand him.

Witht that being said he is a way better CIV 3 player than I am.

But you will basicaly have to hand over the game to him because he is not much of a team player.

And we being a bunch of neanderthals, he wont listen to us much.

I cant wait till he sees the low number of workers we have

Up to you and Beta, I am biased.

	25-02-2004 05:40									#11
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I am cool with that.

I just like sharing the work load by getting new members.

The fact we are under seige, will encourage some of the elite strategists to join us, because of the challenge it represents.

I have no intention of handing the game over to him.
I made it clear .. consultant position only.

Anyway..Dom may also say no, and so could CoD.

Lets eee what happens. We still make the final decision.

Regs

PS.. You message to Python is fine.

	25-02-2004 08:13									#12
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con raises some valid points - and if Dom does join us for a bit - we should erase the last couple of posts, as con suggests.

He is not very light-hearted, as we are.
He is a very good civ player - no doubt about it.
He is difficult to be on the same team with. And I speak from my MZO experience. He basically runs the game. With a certain air about him. He was even going to lecture me about demo game protocol when I asked to receive the save. Which is OK, as he didn't know me that well. And he has lightened up from the start.

I am easy either way - but con does raise a point. And to be honest H_E - I have seen what you can do at warfare - and I am more than happy with you calling the shots and con and I pitching in our 2 cents worth. In terms of warfare - you would give Dom a run for his money, H_E.

And furthermore - Dom is fairly singular in his approach to FA. We would have to take care of that.

	25-02-2004 10:55									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I have no intention of handing the game over to him. I made it clear .. consultant position only.

if it happens I would not plan on it.

The biggest effect will be on you guys, you play the turn.

Im just a dispstcik diplomat

Either way its fine, but the team karma will definately change.

	25-02-2004 16:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 if it happens I would not plan on it. The biggest effect will be on you guys, you play the turn. Im just a dispstcik diplomat Either way its fine, but the team karma will definately change.

Agreed.

	25-02-2004 17:51									#15
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Cod want to discuss it and get back to us. So basically we wont get an answer for another week.

I only know Dom from the ISDG, and his AAR's in AU.
I agree with most of his posts & are blown away by his skill.

You guys have had first hand experience from MZO, and know him better. You are hinting (although not saying) you would prefer not to have him.

So... I will not push it any more.
I have no problems with that.

	25-02-2004 19:40									#16
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As long as its consultant only, I wont protest.

But again this is really up to you and Beta.

BTW when are you going to join the American Imperialists at MZO, we welcome our ANZUS brothers to that struggle

	26-02-2004 02:52									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I thought about joining ... butI have too many Demo / PBEM's.

I purchased C3C a while ago, and still have not played one game on it.

	26-02-2004 05:29									#18
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But if you do join MZO - join the Canuck team. Dom, Panzer32, myself, Big Dork (who ya gotta love), nye (rarely posts), Konquest, and a couple others who are mostly inactive.



(Sorry con, for the counter-advertising.)