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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Democracy Game > Intersite DG: Apolyton Team > Nominations for Consul: March 2004
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WhiteBandit is offline WhiteBandit
Prince
Southern California
Jul 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 12:54 Visit WhiteBandit's homepage!
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#31 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

* WhiteBandit considers running as well.... (serious!)

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 13:25
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#32 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

* MrWhereItsAt starts shooting arrows at WB's heels

Run, WB, run!

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 13:41
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#33 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
I'm really disappointed by what I'm seeing in this thread. Leaders attacking members of the team... that's a good way to foster cooperation and participation, or not.

I don't care how much anyone may have gotten under your skin as Consuls, that is way over the line and extremely unseemly in leaders.


NYE,

Allow me to explain.

BigFree has been doing nothing but propagandizing against the Consuls and accusing us of all sorts of absolutely ludicrous things for weeks (months? I've long since lost track). He has at every single turn attempted to dengrate the holders of the office, ignore the requests of either us or his teammates to soften his tone at the U.N., and few have lost notice. It was inevitable that as we approach an election, a political event, that this would reach a fever pitch and at least one or more of the Consuls would have to respond by telling BigFree to put his money where is mouth is.

We have been exceedingly patient with BigFree for nearly the past month of his constant heckling and attempts to denegrate the service of not only ourselves but others on this team. As we approach an election and BigFree became even more derogatory and disrespectful of his fellow teammates, we felt it was more appropriate of a time to finally respond to BigFree and encourage him to put his money where is mouth is by running in the election. If he really thought we were doing such a terrible job, he needed to step up to the plate and run against one of us.

In the internal forum leading to an election, that's not unexpected, especially with someone like BF thrown into the mix. What you are expecting is that elected leaders should place themselves entirely above politics even when stated opponents are day and night working to denegrate them while the elected leaders are working their tails off on behalf of the team.

That's just incredibly unrealistic. The only surprising thing at all is that we have been so amazingly patient with him until now.

With his attempts to smear us heating up significantly and his seeming complete disregard for the wishes or concerns of the rest of the team concering his behavior at the U.N. occuring at the same time, we grew tired of being patient with him.

The lesson here is that we are human. Even our patience is not entirely limitless, as much as we might try to create the illusion that it is so. The other lesson is that politics is part of human nature and thus part of any institution formed by human hands. Faced with real domestic political opposition, we have not only the right, but the obligation to respond. That is part of the nature of democracy... it is an excessively messy form of government.

If the manner of our latest form of response is seen as beneath the dignity of our office, then we have two things to cover, a question and a statement:

1. What do you feel that Consuls may do to respond to political opponents who make outrageous and, frankly, libelous attacks?

2. We acknowledged previously in this thread that our attempts to confront BigFree went a bit far and that we are sorry they went to this length.

I am not sorry, however, that we chose to confront BigFree. I wish we had held ourselves back a bit more when doing so such that we wouldn't have gone a bit too far, but we had every right to eventually confront him.

Perhaps we will be patient again for a long time before confronting him, but if he continues to denegrate the service of members of this team, I can guarantee that he will eventually be confronted for doing so again.

Should that happen, we will simply have to be more careful with the manner in which we do so.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 14:37
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#34 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Again, I laugh at your reponse that is full of halfs truths and otherwise just full of accusations of your own that come mostly from your point of view and not fully based in reality.

I have not been personally attacking you. I have been trying to secure the freedoms the members of this team has since you and the other two Consuls seem intent on ursuping them away! I have attacked your reasoning and your intentions to stiffle the Senate. It is clear that you have made this personal since you no longer debate the topic but instead steer clear of it and attack my character and even go as far to insinuate that I don't care about our team and how we do in this game.

Are you mad? Do you really think I don't care? If you said yes, then I cannot convince you otherwise.

Besides, do you really think nye needs an explanation of what's going on? Does nye not have access to the rest of the forum? Your attempt to rationalize your attacks on me is one for the record books.

This will be my last respoonse to your ramblings, accusations, attacks and inuendo.

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

Emperor
Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 19:53 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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#35 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

quote:
Originally posted by Rhothaerill
I think all three of you need to sit back and take a look at this little flame war you've gotten into (and yes that's what it has turned into). This arguing back and forth and calling each other out hasn't accomplished a damn thing today except make the minimal participants like me wonder why we even participate in this game.

One of the main issues that has been bandied about today is the UN rep along with the maturity and accountability that need to go along with that job. So far I have not seen any maturity in this current flame war from anyone.

Grow up people!


quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
I'm really disappointed by what I'm seeing in this thread. Leaders attacking members of the team... that's a good way to foster cooperation and participation, or not.

I don't care how much anyone may have gotten under your skin as Consuls, that is way over the line and extremely unseemly in leaders.


These are by far the best two posts in this thread, I am going to ask everyone very nicely to please heed this advice.

Lets just all cool off for a while. Then if we want to debate the issues lets do it in a non flamatory way if possible.

We (ALL OF US) in this family we call the ISDG have some pretty big decisions coming up. Lets focus on that instead of each other.

I for one and I think others would really appreciate it guys.

We are all human, lets just chaulk this up to some human mistakes and move forward.

With all the (sometimes raw) talent we have on this team if we could just figure out a way to work together we would be UNSTOPABLE.

For the most part I think we have, there has been some bumps lately, lets try to get by that and MOVE FORWARD to kicking some A$$ in this game.

This thread after all is supposed to be for nominating people to the Consel elections

Thanks!

Last edited by conmcb25 on 24-02-2004 at 20:00

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

Emperor
Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 19:59 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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#36 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Whitebandit, I have a concern, since the move to SF you have been very busy lately.

Are things settling down for you now?

Just tell me you have enough time and I will enthusiatically second your nomination.

Thanks

BigFurryMonster is offline BigFurryMonster
Emperor
EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 23:11 Visit BigFurryMonster's homepage!
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#37 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

This should work:



MZ - there is a new way of posting pics.

quote:

wtf is the problem with posting pics???

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-02-2004 23:41 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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#38 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

ahh, so you have to use HTML now.... thanks

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
  Old Post 25-02-2004 05:13
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#39 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Hot_Enamel


stop using capital letters ???


Man, I missed this the first time through!

 
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