24-02-2004 02:34									#1
	Nominations for Consul: March 2004 Increase the size of your Attachments

This thread is for nominations and candidacy announcements for the election held on the Consular seat currenly held by Trip (previously held by vondrack and BigFree).

All candidacies must be announced by March 4th, 2004.

Election starts on March 7th, 2004 and will last 3 days for round one. 2nd round would start on March 10th/11th if necessary.

	24-02-2004 02:37									#2
	Tired of ads?

I will be running for reelection

	24-02-2004 02:37									#3
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I hereby nominate BigFree. I must admit that I would not vote for him, but I think a BigFree -vs- Trip race would be a clear choice for the nation and one that would be a productive democratic exercise.

Both of them have shown a desire to be Consul and have contrasting views on a number of key issues.

As for my challenge to BigFree (keep in mind this was in response to a quasi-flame by him):

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos BigFree, You were the de facto U.N. Representative of this team when you were Consul. People moved to remove you because they felt you messed up that job. The point is that this is precisely what has made the system of assigning the U.N. representation to the Consuls a workable system. If a Consul, an elected official, messes up the U.N. job, they can be removed from office almost immediately. The Consuls are willing to stand on that. Anyone on this team can start a CoC against any Consul at any time that they feel we have messed up this team's reputation in the U.N. forum or performed some other action there that angers the team. This idea that you have that the Consuls are somehow above accountability to the team was proven wrong by the very CoC called against yourself while Consul. With that covered, I'll say it again: We have an election for the seat you gave up a week from now. You don't like Trip. You think you could do a better job than Trip. Hell, you think Trip is a power-hungry monster bent on controlling the entire team and that you stand for all that is right and just. You're bitter that Trip has your job. From my understanding of you, the only reason you wouldn't run is if you have somehow lost the the courage of your convictions. Losing the courage of your convictions is not something people have come to expect from you. Besides, a Trip -vs- BigFree Consular race would offer a very clear choice for the people of Apolyton to make. It would be a productive exercise of democracy for the team. You would have ample opportunity to make your case, Trip could make his, and the team could decide.

	24-02-2004 03:10									#4
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I also nominate BigFree since he apparently thinks he can do a much better job than us three inept Hungry Men™

	24-02-2004 03:24									#5
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Boy, Arnelos sure loves to repeat himself in various threads....I won't bother doing the same. I'm not surpised he has MZ on his leash now though.

MZ: I never said "inept" nor have I said you can't do the job as indicated by the Constitution. My only beef is that the Consuls wnat to increase there reign of power; something with which I have a problem.

	24-02-2004 03:26									#6
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Are you going to accept the nomination BF?

I second it BTW.

	24-02-2004 03:31									#7
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I'm sorry conmcb25. I do not feel I would have the time to properly execute the role. I start a new job soon and will be attending some night classes. My availability will be shrinking shortly.

I would like to nominate Togas. Although I do not always agree with him, his ability to remain unbiased from personal opions really impresses me. Togas alwyas presens ideas and thoughts based upon facts and what he feels is fair. I trust his judgment 99% of the time.

I sincerely hope that he will accept this nomination. He is a good man for the job.

	24-02-2004 03:34									#8
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I'm sorry conmcb25. I do not feel I would have the time to properly execute the role. I start a new job soon and will be attending some night classes. My availability will be shrinking shortly. I would like to nominate Togas. Although I do not always agree with him, his ability to remain unbiased from personal opions really impresses me. Togas alwyas presens ideas and thoughts based upon facts and what he feels is fair. I trust his judgment 99% of the time. I sincerely hope that he will accept this nomination. He is a good man for the job.

Ah well good luck in the new job and the night classes.

I agree about Togas, I was going to nominate him next since I was really hoping for a Trip/Togas/BF three way match up.

That would be fun to watch.

Hopefully Togas has the time and I will second his nomination.

	24-02-2004 03:52									#9
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Trip vs Togas II: The Revenge!

This one's going to be fun....

	24-02-2004 05:13									#10
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I was going to post on this on March 1st, but I suppose now is as good a time as any.

I intend to run for Consul in the elections on March 8th and, thus, accept my nomination.

My girlfriend leaves the country on March 1. She returns about 3 months later. While she's gone I intend to dedicate myself to this game as well as the C3C Team as I'll have twice the free time and no distractions at home.

This is an ideal time for me to run, probably the best possible time, frankly, in the entire time I've been a participant in these demo games.

I'm looking forward to this. I intend to run a much more serious election this time, and I hope to ultimately beat Trip when the votes are in.

--Togas

	24-02-2004 05:18									#11
	Suffering from ads?

BigFree,

You've made it abundantly apparent that you believe you could do a better job than Trip and that Trip is "power-hungry" and needs to be stopped. You argue with Trip on a near constant basis and believe you could do a better job than Trip as Consul.

You seem to have a limitless supply of time to post in this forum and are in chat nearly all day every day. The "I don't have time" excuse has a familiar ring to it... It sounds like a politician, someone from my line of work, saying "I need to spend more time with my family" when they decide not to run in a race against a challenging opponent. If you thought you had a better chance of winning, you'd make the time.

So stop being chicken and run. Sure, it'd be a challenging race - you may not win it. So? That's never stopped the BigFree I know before. The only reason that would stop you NOW is if you've changed.

	24-02-2004 05:25									#12
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Time was never an issue when you decided not to run again back in november. From the CoC thread (dated Nov. 11)

quote: [QUOTE] Originally posted by BigFree Yes, I know, but it's a good indication how such a "replacment proposal" would go. I guess it would have been good if F-P actually read the Constituion and adhered to it instead of just posting invalid polls. I had nothing against this poll running because I wanted to see how many people thought I should be relieved from my duties. Frankly, I see too many against me for me to want to continue as a Consul. I will not be running for re-election.

	24-02-2004 05:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos BigFree, You've made it abundantly apparent that you believe you could do a better job than Trip and that Trip is "power-hungry" and needs to be stopped. You argue with Trip on a near constant basis and believe you could do a better job than Trip as Consul. You seem to have a limitless supply of time to post in this forum and are in chat nearly all day every day. The "I don't have time" excuse has a familiar ring to it... It sounds like a politician, someone from my line of work, saying "I need to spend more time with my family" when they decide not to run in a race against a challenging opponent. If you thought you had a better chance of winning, you'd make the time. So stop being chicken and run. Sure, it'd be a challenging race - you may not win it. So? That's never stopped the BigFree I know before. The only reason that would stop you NOW is if you've changed.

I have to seriously laugh at you here. Do you not read my words? Do you simply see my avartar next to a post and then immediately start writing things without thought or concern as to what I've written? It sure seems like it. Let me re-state it for you in case you need new spectacles or something; I wouldn't want you to strain your eyes or anything.


I do not feel I would have the time to properly execute the role. I start a new job soon and will be attending some night classes. My availability will be shrinking shortly.


Also, get off the "BigFree Hates Trip" kick you have going on. If your incorrect mentioning of this is not an attempt at fanning flames then I don't know what is.

Don't make me go panag on you!

Also, if I was afraid of losing I wouldn't ever post a poll. I wouldn't ever argue a point. Go bark up another tree. The only thing you are trying to do here is instigate something. You will not succeed in whatever your intetnions of that outcome might have been.

[Jedi mind trick]
Arnelos, move along, nothing to see here.
[/Jedi mind trick]

	24-02-2004 05:35									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Time was never an issue when you decided not to run again back in november. From the CoC thread (dated Nov. 11)

And your point is???

Time was not a stated issue then. (November)

Time is a stated issue now. (March)

You'll have to do better than that.

I must say you and Arnelos sure are expending a lot of energy on trying to attack me. I wonder what panag would do in this situation...

	24-02-2004 05:42									#15
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We're just trying to get you to run, BigFree.

But it's perfectly ok with us if you want to chicken out.

	24-02-2004 05:47									#16
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I wonder what panag would do in this situation...

stop using capital letters ???

	24-02-2004 05:49									#17
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree And your point is??? Time was not a stated issue then. (November) Time is a stated issue now. (March) You'll have to do better than that. I must say you and Arnelos sure are expending a lot of energy on trying to attack me. I wonder what panag would do in this situation...

maybe you need to avoid contradicting yourself so often:

quote: [QUOTE] Originally posted by BigFree I did not run again because of two reasons: 1. I held the spot for 6 months. I think that's long enough.

so first you say it's because people are so against you, then you say because 6 months is enough (however the first post implies that had the CoC incident not occured you would've indeed ran for reelection).

But oh well, you ain't running again, enough ****ing your chain, you can always change your mind next month and run against ME

-MZ

	24-02-2004 05:49									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos We're just trying to get you to run, BigFree. But it's perfectly ok with us if you want to chicken out.

No.

You are just flamming and it's not ok. I'm glad you seem to think that showing respect for the other teams should not be a consideration for you when addresing a team mate. But I guess as a Consul you feel you have the right to flame when you want to.

It seems to me you are just out trying to prove, for some reason, that I would not win an election against Trip and now Togas. What's the point of doing this exactly? So, if I don't win then it means that evreything I have said is not valid because the team did not validate me as a Consul? Please.

Look at who's acting young and immature now.

Arnelos and MZ sure have spent alot of time while being about it at the same time.

	24-02-2004 05:56									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen maybe you need to avoid contradicting yourself so often: so first you say it's because people are so against you, then you say because 6 months is enough (however the first post implies that had the CoC incident not occured you would've indeed ran for reelection). But oh well, you ain't running again, enough ****ing your chain, you can always change your mind next month and run against ME -MZ

MZ: Are you really that _____(insert non-demeaning word to mean not-smart)?

There was obviously more than one reason why I did not run again. You touched on one of them. Did I ever say "This and only this is the reason I did not run."? Did I have to ever fully explain why or why not I would run? Go see what else you can dig up for your next flame. Or, better yet, do you job as Consul instead of continue this flamming you so often lable as childish. Take a lesson from yourself for crying out loud.

	24-02-2004 05:59									#20
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I think all three of you need to sit back and take a look at this little flame war you've gotten into (and yes that's what it has turned into). This arguing back and forth and calling each other out hasn't accomplished a damn thing today except make the minimal participants like me wonder why we even participate in this game.

One of the main issues that has been bandied about today is the UN rep along with the maturity and accountability that need to go along with that job. So far I have not seen any maturity in this current flame war from anyone.

Grow up people!

	24-02-2004 06:03									#21
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BF, I honestly just want you to run.

But it's fine if you want to refuse. You're withing your rights to do so. I don't think it's childish for me to tell you I'm disappointed in you for not doing so, but we'll just have to leave that as a difference of opinion.

I'm willing to let the matter drop.

	24-02-2004 06:08									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I think all three of you need to sit back and take a look at this little flame war you've gotten into (and yes that's what it has turned into). This arguing back and forth and calling each other out hasn't accomplished a damn thing today except make the minimal participants like me wonder why we even participate in this game. One of the main issues that has been bandied about today is the UN rep along with the maturity and accountability that need to go along with that job. So far I have not seen any maturity in this current flame war from anyone. Grow up people!

For the most part you are right. Maybe I should not have tried to defend myself and just let them rant on. I'm apologize to the people that have to read the previous posts in this thread that have nothing to do with who the next candidates for Consul are.

	24-02-2004 06:11									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I think all three of you need to sit back and take a look at this little flame war you've gotten into (and yes that's what it has turned into). This arguing back and forth and calling each other out hasn't accomplished a damn thing today except make the minimal participants like me wonder why we even participate in this game.

My apologies if you think that way about it.

My intent was to encourage BigFree to run, since it was obvious that he feels he could do a better job and because I feel it would be a good exercise for the team to have a competitive race with a CLEAR distinction in choice between candidates that I believe a Trip -v- BigFree race would represent.

I knew that the only way there was even a shot of getting BigFree to run was to provide some inducement, which in BigFree's case all too often might come in the form of egging him on. I didn't figure that anything else would work.

I can see that it didn't work. BigFree is refusing to run.

So I apologize if I went a bit too far in trying to get him to run.

- Arnelos

	24-02-2004 06:21									#24
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counterargument: so you admit you don't like being flammed yet insist it isn't a problem when dealing with other teams?

your last post just proves what we've been arguing with you for months. That no one likes to be on the receiving end of sarcastic remarks and provocations. Learn from this instead of just trying to defend each and every act you do or say even when you know quite well it is wrong.

	24-02-2004 06:22									#25
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No comment.

	24-02-2004 06:24									#26
	Tired of ads?

so, are we going to see any campaigning or what???

* Master Zen offers banners for the candidates for only $10 each (as well as a vote for next month's elections)

	24-02-2004 11:42									#27
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Togas, I know I said I would compete against you in the March elections but, quite frankly, I would be almost entirely absent until early April. March is my month of PRESENTING what I have been doing the last year. It's not going to be pretty.

So sadly I cannot hold up to my promise to run now, against Togas and Trip (that would have been SO much fun...). Here's hoping for next month....

	24-02-2004 11:49									#28
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ok, if no-one wants to start campaigning...

I WILL!

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=26621_Trip-Togas.gif


EDIT: wtf is the problem with posting pics???

	24-02-2004 12:14									#29
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I'm really disappointed by what I'm seeing in this thread. Leaders attacking members of the team... that's a good way to foster cooperation and participation, or not.

I don't care how much anyone may have gotten under your skin as Consuls, that is way over the line and extremely unseemly in leaders.

	24-02-2004 12:33									#30
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm really disappointed by what I'm seeing in this thread. Leaders attacking members of the team... that's a good way to foster cooperation and participation, or not. I don't care how much anyone may have gotten under your skin as Consuls, that is way over the line and extremely unseemly in leaders.

To be honest, you are right. Now that the dust has (mostly) settled, looking at this thread we did go waaay out of line this time althought at the moment it was the coming together of various heated arguments from other threads.

Apologies on my behalf. I promise we will act in a more dignified manner next time. I think both sides proved their point ultimately, shame that this was the way to do it...

-MZ