24-02-2004 03:40									#1
	MGL from elite ships? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

So, can an MGL ever be generated from naval combat? In my current game with China I ended up with several elite galleys. No MGLs from them, but the sample size is small. (No MGLs from land combat either in this game; no doubt I'll get one eventually.)

Also, can an MGL ever be generated from defensive combat? I would assume so, because I assume that the code is tied in to unit promotion. However, we all know about assumptions...

	24-02-2004 03:42									#2
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MGL's cannot be generated through ship combat, however MGL's can be generated through defensive land combat. The chances are less though (1 in 32 I believe if you have not built the Heroic Epic, 1 in 24 if you have).

	24-02-2004 05:15									#3
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Not in CivIII, but IIRC it was allowed in CivII.

	24-02-2004 05:34									#4
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Not in CivIII, but IIRC it was allowed in CivII.

There were GLs in civ2???

Either my memory is even worse than I thought (possible... :P ), or the closest thing to great leaders in civ 2 were those wily red-headed barbarian cheiftans.

jon.

	24-02-2004 05:40									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill MGL's can be generated through defensive land combat.

And it really sucks! Invariably you get a MGL early in the combat phase when you're being attacked by a huge stack. They kill off whatever defenders you have in that tile, then destroy your MGL.

Why not give MGL's the ability to retreat when all the other units in their tile are killed? A great military leader would certainly hang with the troops while they are being attacked (no cowardice in the face of the enemy), but surely a GREAT military leader would have learned a few things about escape and evasion and would heed the ancient advice "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."

	24-02-2004 09:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by joncha There were GLs in civ2??? Either my memory is even worse than I thought (possible... :P ), or the closest thing to great leaders in civ 2 were those wily red-headed barbarian cheiftans. jon.

It may be me that is losing it. I thought I recalled get something special from some combat with battleships in CivII. I could not find any reference to it in my strat guide, so I am probably confused.

	24-02-2004 09:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by patcon A great military leader would certainly hang with the troops while they are being attacked (no cowardice in the face of the enemy), but surely a GREAT military leader would have learned a few things about escape and evasion and would heed the ancient advice "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."

RUN AWAY!!

	24-02-2004 10:24									#8
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 It may be me that is losing it. I thought I recalled get something special from some combat with battleships in CivII. I could not find any reference to it in my strat guide, so I am probably confused.

hhummm, i think you're losing it!
If I am right too, I've never see something close to a great leader in CivII, even in naval combat. (like joncha said, there was some Barbarian Chief in CivII or maybe you have see a Spie icon over the transport icon????)

But maybe i was so bad in Civ2 that i was never able to gain something in civ2!!!

See ya

	24-02-2004 18:16									#9
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Er, no. There are no GLs of any sort in Civ2. Nor Civ, in fact, or SMAC (although upon eliminating a faction you get a neat little animation of the faction leader being locked in a torture chamber forever )

	25-02-2004 00:09									#10
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English MGL: Brave Sir Robin

MGLs have speed so should be able to run away. I haven't lost an MGL in defensive combat (since I haven't generated any that way yet). Of course I will now promptly do so.

Thanks, all. After posting I followed a link to CivFanatics and found a nice article there on leader generation. Is it true that you can have multiple SGLs? I know you can't have multiple MGLs (so I often have an empty army waiting for the next generation of units, such as knights).

	25-02-2004 00:15									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard English MGL: Brave Sir Robin MGLs have speed so should be able to run away. I haven't lost an MGL in defensive combat (since I haven't generated any that way yet). Of course I will now promptly do so. Thanks, all. After posting I followed a link to CivFanatics and found a nice article there on leader generation. Is it true that you can have multiple SGLs? I know you can't have multiple MGLs (so I often have an empty army waiting for the next generation of units, such as knights).

I haven't actually experienced multiple SGL generation in a game so I've never had two at the same time, but I've heard that it is possible.

	25-02-2004 00:38									#12
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No, but marines and berserks can generate MGLs while on a ship.

	25-02-2004 03:13									#13
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quote: Originally posted by cronos_qc hhummm, i think you're losing it! If I am right too, I've never see something close to a great leader in CivII, even in naval combat. (like joncha said, there was some Barbarian Chief in CivII or maybe you have see a Spie icon over the transport icon????) But maybe i was so bad in Civ2 that i was never able to gain something in civ2!!! See ya

No GL's from any kind but you could bribe battleships with spies from land ( I LOVED that feature)

	25-02-2004 03:29									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber No GL's from any kind but you could bribe battleships with spies from land ( I LOVED that feature)

Unless they were stacked -- which was always the gold standard in counter-espionage in Civ2.

You couldn't bribe two battleships (one seems silly to begin with, but silly me talking about reality again), but you could bribe a whole city.

	25-02-2004 05:35									#15
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i've always wondered about sea based MGLs and if it was only because the leader unit is a 'land' unit as opposed to a sea unit. if thats it though, people would have to play with only sea MGLs or land MGLs since in the editor we can only specify one battle created unit.

whats needed is navy great leaders

	26-02-2004 07:37									#16
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quote: Originally posted by smellymummy i've always wondered about sea based MGLs and if it was only because the leader unit is a 'land' unit as opposed to a sea unit.

Yeah, it would really stink to watch your brand-new MGL drown...

	28-02-2004 03:37									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I haven't actually experienced multiple SGL generation in a game so I've never had two at the same time, but I've heard that it is possible.

It is indeed possible.

This night I had a real nice streak of luck, which ended with me getting 2 SGLs the same turn!!!

I was the first to research Philisophy (which gave me a SGL), I then choose Mapmaking as my free tech and got another SGL from that.

I even didn't see them at first as I was a bit preoccupied with tech-choosing, and the leader pop-up was obscured by the tech-dialog.


A very lucky game indeed. Originally intended as a trainer to get the feel of playing a small map, monarch, with a mil+ind civ. Now, first I got ivory right by my capitol, then I popped a settler from my first hut, I got the americans as neighbours, they were just pushovers in my first war(the RNG gave me a hard time but who cares..), I got horses and iron close by, and I can deny it to the yankees, and now the SGLs....

What to build...the Statue of Zeus is a no-brainer, but where do I put number two? Lighthouse? Pyramids? Or save it for the temple of artimes? Decisions decisions decisions...

This game is really screwing up my statistics.

Save enclosed. Just load and hit enter. c3c 1.12beta

	28-02-2004 04:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by smellymummy i've always wondered about sea based MGLs and if it was only because the leader unit is a 'land' unit as opposed to a sea unit. if thats it though, people would have to play with only sea MGLs or land MGLs since in the editor we can only specify one battle created unit. whats needed is navy great leaders

It'd make sense for seafaring nations to be able to have naval MGLs, wouldn't it?

	28-02-2004 04:20									#19
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Bongo, please, please, please build more cities.
With all that good luck the Americans should be died and buried years ago. But you luck b*stard. 2 SGLs in one turn, you could research polytheism and det the oracle and the ToA, perfect wonders to complement each other.

	28-02-2004 04:49									#20
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BTW you can set the research down to 50% and still get teh breack through on the next turn. Pocketing a lot of extra gold.

Workers mining a hill by Canton. That is an expensive task, you can get two shileds from the forrest for a lot less worker turns.

Another worker irrigating a tile that is not even in any cities cultural borders.

I would think you could just eliminate the Americans right now.
They will be of no use to you and you will need that land.

The fewer civs left in the game the cheaper reseach will be for you and the more it will cost the AI, especially if they are behind you in tech.

Anyway that is a very nice break. I have to let out a sigh as I comtemplate starting a Sid game, knowing I will not be getting an SGL's.

	28-02-2004 05:31									#21
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um, perhaps wrong thread, vmxa1?

	28-02-2004 05:38									#22
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I should have said that I would opt for switching Canton to Pyramids and rush it. Then do Oracle and rush it. SoZ can be built at your lesuire. I would bet that no one will have Ivory, but you and even is they do you should be able to make it faster than they do. I would then go for ToA. No one is building any wonders right now, so they are all behind you.

Building these early wonders will bury the AI. Don;t forget to switch off the granary before rushing the Pyramid. You may even want to switch Canton to a build that can be done quickly to those shields you have invested into the wonder already.

You need to get some shield production in Nanking and in fact Canton as well.

Maximizing your production is not really needed at Monarch, but it is a good practice.

	28-02-2004 05:42									#23
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ah, my mistake...now I'm caught up...

	28-02-2004 09:18									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner ah, my mistake...now I'm caught up...

It would not be the first time if I was in the wrong thread, glad that was not the case this time. It is scary at this age, Those senior moments are not funny.

	28-02-2004 15:23									#25
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I sacrificed some settler building to get enough archers to win my first war against the americans. My second war will follow soon I'll let them get a couple of cities above 2 first so I can capture them. Gotta finish exploring my home continent as well, I don't want the other civs to know I'm a deal breaker


Basically, this game is won already. Building SoZ will just help me conquer the rest of the world faster(SoZ is relatively stronger on smaller maps), I'm a great fan of the pyramids btw, but I think I will wait for ToA anyway.

I'm about to start a new demo team game in the gamecatcher forum, my team will play a custom mil+ind civ on a small map. Just wanted to get the 'feel' for this level, get the city spacing and placement right for this map size etc...The stroke of luck has lessened the value of this game as a trainer but it was still fun seeing those 2 SGLs appear


Oh, I'm aware that I'm not playing 100% optimal here, I reserve that kind of commitment for games with human opponents

	28-02-2004 17:44									#26
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Oh, I'm aware that I'm not playing 100% optimal here, I reserve that kind of commitment for games with human opponents

Ah...

MrWhereItsAt
Apolyton ISDG Team Member

	28-02-2004 23:19									#27
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I wish you good luck in the demo game, unless it is against Poly.

	29-02-2004 21:36									#28
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Thank you

It's an internal gamecatcher game. I'm on Team Sweden, the rest are: Team Canada, Team USA and the New British Empire.

You have to be able to communicate in a scandinavian language to be on team sweden, apart from that, the teams are open to anyone