25-02-2004 02:36									#1
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Hello people!
I have embarked on yet a scenario adventure. This time I wanted to do something different than ww2. So for the last two weeks I have worked on a scenario I wish to call 'Belle Epoque'. Belle Epoque is French and means 'The beutiful time'. It is a term used to describe the period early in the 20th century, especially within art and music and such. And this was in a prosperous time were consumer goods such as the vacuum cleaner, air conditioniner, automated tea maker, radio, the first mass produced automobile and so one, came to the marked for the first time. The optimism was on its greatest ever.

So as you might understand it is a scenario starting early in the 20th century. I havn't decided exactly on when it should start, it be in 1900, 1901, 1902 or 1903 and so on. It is a giga world scenario, on a world map at least I havn't seen before. But the era isn't as flowerish as it sounds like; wars are looming under the surface, wars which shaped this century. The Balcan wars, the Russo-Japanese war, the Italy-Ottoman war. And last but not least, the great war!

The civs I have this far is:
British Empire
France
German Reich/Austria-Hungary
Russia
Japan
USA
Ottoman Empire

+ barbarians as independents.

I open this thread as I would like some discussion around the scen, on what to include , what wonders to use and how it all should look like in the end etc.. I am about 70% done with the scen, and only have the game play making left really. Everything else is as good as finito!

Any suggestions?

Attachment: units_belle.gif
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Last edited by Eivind IV on 02-03-2004 at 00:17

	25-02-2004 02:56									#2
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Representing the rise of Commies and Fascists should be interesting, if you plan to do that!

	25-02-2004 03:06									#3
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Yes, that was a thought with the SA trooper (only under fundamentalism flag) and those commie rebels next to the MG Fascism and Communism are techs that can be reached and governments you can switch to. Much later in the game of course.

	28-02-2004 07:22									#4
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The units look very nice! But personally i would like to see some balcan nation or group of nations (serbia,greece,rumania for example?) instead of the ussual ottoman empire :| but its your scen

	29-02-2004 09:29									#5
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A very interesting idea. Each of the four conflicts you have mentioned can be thought of as a separate scenario with different sets of nations involved. If I understand correctly, your idea would link them into one grand scenario.

If you are considering making it a standard game (I don't see how the historical time-line could be maintained in a multi-player game where everyone is looking for a piece of the action) I can't help wondering how you can prevent it from immediately degenerating into WW I.

For example, assume that the scenario starts with the Russo-Japanese war and Russia conquers Japan. If I were playing Russia, I would immediately start looking for new conquests. If I turned east or south, I would probably run into French and British interests in China and India. My best course would probably be to use the Entente Cordiale as an excuse to attack the German coalition. In any event, WW I would have started much too soon and I don't know if there is a way that EVENTS can prevent this.

I can see similar strategies and results no matter which of the major powers is played.

Am I missing something obvious? Is there some way that EVENTS can be used to permit a war to begin and also make it end? Making allies out of all nations will prevent attacks but will not stop infiltration. IIRC, in Dictator I, Japan and the US are allies for the first 18 turns of the scenario. By the time war was declared in Dec. 1941 Japan had infiltrated 100+ units into a newly founded city east of Los Angeles. These easily conquered the US within two turns.

	29-02-2004 13:03									#6
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Eivind - what's the blokey on the 3rd row/2nd slot supposed to be?

	29-02-2004 13:44									#7
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about Fascsits and Commies
Many people give the Fascists the Fundamenetalist slot and have the commies keep the Communism slot
I find it often works better the other way round
: Communist countries can the gear all industry towards military and will stand up to the enemy, while their industrial cities can produce masses of units at little cost and can be sent to the front, and the fanatic slot can be well used for "Red Army"
Fascist governments, on the other hand, are popular when they are doing well, but as defeat comes citizens become restless (one less unit to impose
This also simulates the need to garisson troops in large cities to prevent unrest.

	29-02-2004 16:48									#8
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@varwnos: If only civ2 could have more playable civs... *dreams*

@AGRICOLA: Isn't that the charm of historical scenarios? To seek an alternative outcome of history?

but it would be cool to somehow represent the Spartakist revolt and the anti war demonstrations. But then again hard to do since you don't neccessary have to fight wars in this scen .

And it will be giga map so it will be hard for the Japanese to build cities in America since all 255 cities are used (unless you raze a city first of course)

quote: Is there some way that EVENTS can be used to permit a war to begin and also make it end?

Not to my knowledge, no. Only way is making the civs allies, but how realistic is that when you block the beauty of open season.

@Gareth:
That's ment to be an Ottoman ww1 soldier laddie I got it from Steph's ww1 scen. Is it very wrong?

@josefstalin: Interesting thought. I will take it into consideration.

	29-02-2004 20:30									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Kobra @Gareth: That's ment to be an Ottoman ww1 soldier laddie I got it from Steph's ww1 scen. Is it very wrong?

Yes

Jim Panse used my King's African Legion and stuck a steel helmet on him. If it's an Ottoman Stormtrooper you're after, then the figure above with a German helmet added would be about right.

	01-03-2004 04:36									#10
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@Kobra

I understand and appreciate your explanation.

However, I still don't see how this would be a Belle Epoque scenario rather than a WWI scenario where the war started 5 or 10 years sooner.

	01-03-2004 04:51									#11
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For Multiplayer games, there can be different victory conditions; Technological win, treasury win, conquest win etc.

	01-03-2004 05:26									#12
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Multiplayer? Got it.
Thanks.

	02-03-2004 00:16									#13
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Progress report:
Things left to be done before finished:
* Deciding who gets what wonder.
* Working on unit stats
* Unit placement
* Finding or making some suitable cities graphics

I can see the light in the end of the tunnell, people!

Anyone got some constructive suggestions on what wonders to choose? I want to have as many generic, buildable wonders as possible.

	06-03-2004 18:03									#14
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Can these pass for early 20th century cities? The cities are made by st. leo, tweaked and compiled by me and Curt Sibling. With the exeption of the ottman cities, which are Jim Panse's.

Now only unit placement left, which is the last thing!

Attachment: cities_belle.bmp
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	14-03-2004 21:51									#15
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Ok, I need some advice before posting the beta, which is ready for take off.

I have two choices here. Either have communism as a reachable government for all civs, or use Jim Panse's idea of having it preserved for the Russians if they loose Smolensk. If I go for alternative #1, the Russian revolution will be triggered by Smolensk as well, but instead of the 'peacful' build in government switching several Bolsheviks will appear throughout Russia. What do you think will be coolest? I'm not sure myself, but alt. #2 would allow you to actually fight the civil war. But probably bloody annoying for the Russian player .

	14-03-2004 23:08									#16
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What governments are what in this, though?

Is communism still in the communism slot, or is it in fundamentalism, monarchy, etc? Can you give a rundown on what government is what?

	14-03-2004 23:53									#17
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Governments:

General Strike - Anarchy
Autocracy - Despotism
Traditional Monarchy - Monarchy
Communist State - Communism
Fascism - Fundamentalism
Limited Democracy - The Republic
Multiparty Democracy - Democracy

Britain, Germany, France and the US start off with Limited Democracy. Russia, the Ottomans and Japan with Traditional Monarchy. Then scen goes from January 1902 to around 1920-ish.

I havn't yet decided if Communism should be in the Fundamentalism slot, and vica verca, yet. And I havn't decided how the Russian revolution should be represented...

	15-03-2004 01:06									#18
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How about for the beta, do both, and have people report back to you what seems to work?

	15-03-2004 01:34									#19
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I'll post the beta tomorrow, or later today (this evening for me that is)

	15-03-2004 06:49									#20
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Behold! Here comes the beta for my latest scenario; 'La Belle Epoque'.

Please give me some feedback, whatever it might be...and please identify yourself when downloading

La Belle Epoque

Last edited by Eivind IV on 15-03-2004 at 06:56

	15-03-2004 06:56									#21
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"After the Franco-German war in 1870/71, Europe enjoyed a period of interior peace for more than forty years until the start of the First World War in 1914. During this period, many important developments took place, especially in England, France, Austria, Germany and the United States. The second wave of the industrial revolution seized the world. Above all it concerned the chemical industry and the electrical engineering, it was the start of the era of the combustion engine and the mass production of steel, the machines became more efficient and more powerful, the ships bigger and their construction less expensive, the propulsion changed from the paddle to the screw, from the piston to the turbine, and their speed doubled. The trains got steel rails on which longer and heavier trains could drive one and a half times as fast as before; therefore it became the most important mean of transport. At the same time began the definite conquest of the air: The first planes were built, and the airships of Zeppelin went down in history. People living in this period were materially confident and culturally optimistic. All social classes were seized by the feeling of a new start into better times. So began, on this basis, the time which nowadays not only the French call the 'La Belle Epoque' (The beutiful time)."

Attachment: screenie.gif
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Last edited by Eivind IV on 15-03-2004 at 07:02

	15-03-2004 16:29									#22
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Based on some comments at CDG, here's the first beta update.

Attachment: belle_beta update.zip
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	15-03-2004 17:33									#23
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I must say that is the most realistic terrain I've seen yet.

	15-03-2004 18:12									#24
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Looks really nice Eivind

	15-03-2004 19:15									#25
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It certainly looks wonderful
but having such a small map really makes war a bit too much of a fantasy, since all the cities are near each other... the europa universalis feel isnt easy to create with civ2

	15-03-2004 20:23									#26
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I haven't dled it yet, but the printscreen is simply beautiful!

	15-03-2004 21:18									#27
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Very beautiful, though like varwnos said, it's crowded. Are all those cities really necessary?

	15-03-2004 23:02									#28
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If you open the game you'll see that Europe is the only place on the map were it's a bit crowded. This is were most of the production is, so in my opinion it is necessary. Glad you all like it! I don't care so much for the looks myself, what about playability?

	16-03-2004 03:47									#29
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Second beta update:

Attachment: second_belle_beta_update2.zip
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Last edited by Eivind IV on 16-03-2004 at 04:53

	16-03-2004 05:00									#30
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Eivind, just downloaded the scenario and it looks nice One thing, do me a favour and use these for the Ottomans; the WW1 uniform is the khaki one, while before 1909 they had worn blue in winter/ white in summer. BTW, the German steel helmet I was referring to before was the later WW1 version, not the spiked helmet. Most Turks wore the Enverieh hat shown on the second figure.

One thing about the unit names: 'British conscripts' sounds a little incongruous as conscription wasn't introduced until well into WW1 in Britain.

Attachment: turks.gif
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