26-02-2004 17:45									#1
	Evil GCA peace plan Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We know that GWT hasn't given their lapdawgs, GCA, Chivalry, because they want them to build a large horse force for later upgrade. So, while GCA doesn't have Chiv, they can build 1 horse every 3 to 4 turns in Pi and their Capitol just built a settler, but can also build 1 horse every 3 to 5 turns.

BUT, if when we (and CFC) send our peace offer to GCA, we also send Chiv (accepted of course), any and all horse builds will auto-upgrade to War elephant (from 30su to 70su). By the ruling that they have to follow, GCA has to accept the peace, and thereby has to accept Chiv and the auto-upgrades.

This will throw a bit of a kink into their ultimate plans. Maybe not much of one, at this point in time, but enough to maybe have an ultamate effect of their war (and later expansion) efforts.

E_T

	26-02-2004 18:12									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

As I have mentioned to E_T in chat, I am a little concerned by this. GCA has to accept peace, but not Chivalry, and if they deliberately do not want Chivalry to build up their forces for upgrading, they will surely be more than a little suspicious of us offering them a tech after all the rhetoric so far.

This looks like me to be the perfect opportunity for Lucky to continue the delaying tactics, and cause us WW for another turn or two. They could reject this, saying it is well within their rights becasue the only thing they are obliged to accept is peace, and they could if they wanted kick up a fuss over us trying to 'exploit' this.

	26-02-2004 18:14									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Agreed with MWIA. The idea itself was worth mentioning, but thinking about possible consequences, I'd rather not try it. Let's get that damn peace.

	26-02-2004 18:21									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Just want to get this straight - if Lucky had an ounce of honour in him he would accept regardless and I would be all for this, but he doesn't. Offer a snake an escape route and it will likely bite you anyway.

	26-02-2004 21:08									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Actually the snakes would be us. It is only stated that we offer peace. It wouldn't take an idiot to realize that it would be screwing them and knowing Lucky would likely raise the issue at the UN

	26-02-2004 21:34									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We could always offer Chivalry as part of a REAL peace proposal instead of Theology like they wanted...

	26-02-2004 21:44									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I agree that they don't have to accept Chivalry, but we could, as Trip points out, make a FINAL peace proposal with Chivalry ... which I doubt they would accept. They're asking for Theo because they have Chiv coming to them from GWT, and GWT likely wants them to go get (or 40 turn) Theo.

Frankly, us just offering Chiv would be a major shift in our diplomacy with GCA. It would signal that we're willing to pay for peace, a move we have thus far proudly refused to make. I'm not sure if we should make the move, as GCA may begin to feel that they have gotten to us or that their tactics have worked.

--Togas

	26-02-2004 23:12									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's a great idea, but like the others, I agree we shouldn't do it. We just need peace with them. If a chivalry deal is worked out then fine, but MZ's right that we'd be the snakes this time and Lucky is the type to try to turn that around and deny us peace again.

	27-02-2004 04:09									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Why oh why woud they be intersted in Chivalry if GWT already has it?

I'll tell you why.

GCA is building Horsemen so they can pgrade them to Elephants at a later time.

GWT has GCA in its back pocket. If GWT or GCA wanted GCA to have Chivalry, they would already have it. Our even negotiating about it with GCA will just add to our frustration levels; which is abundantly clear in most of our threads lately.

	27-02-2004 04:19									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There is a way to confirm this thought. We send peace accepted one turn. The next turn we send chiv accepted. We tell them that now that we are at peace, we want to improve our relations with them. It looks good to them that we are giving them a tech for free, so it helps us.

If they take it, so what. They are half a world away, it won't effect us and they are going to get it from GWT anyway. It will, however, improve our relationship.

If they refuse (an absolutely free tech), then it doesn't effect us negitively in any way. We still look like the good guy for attempting to repair damages and we know for sure what they are doing.

	27-02-2004 05:18									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Nice idea... but we wont fool them at all.
If anything, Lucky will just "clear the take" and we miss our opportunity.

	27-02-2004 05:51									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

But what harm can it do other than to confirm our thoughts?

	27-02-2004 06:31									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

The problem we see, don, is that any offer involving Chiv and Peace could be used by Lucky to refuse peace again - he didn't agree to accepting Peace [B]and[B] something, and he is perfectly correct to do so (if highly irritating), plus there is no ruling saying he must accept Peace with any conditions we like, just Peace on its own.

If we get Peace from him one turn then I have no problems with offering him Chiv the next, I just don't think it would work.

	27-02-2004 07:51									#14
	Suffering from ads?

Let's not give Lucky any more excuses. Besides which, doing this in the hopes that Lucky will be forced to accept Chiv under admin rulings is simply exploitative on the level of... well... Lucky

	27-02-2004 07:56									#15
	Suffering from ads?

Let's rename a town 'Theology' and gift it to them...

	27-02-2004 08:01									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hello!! Listen to what I'm saying people! I am talking about only offering Chiv as accepted AFTER we get peace! Its two different deals.

	27-02-2004 08:16									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

That wasn't the purpose of this thread/idea. It was to see if we could throw a kink into their plans. Obviously, we don't want to take the risk of losing out peace, so it's a moot idea at best now.

E_T

	27-02-2004 08:45									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sorry, E_T, but I agree with others in the thread. Lucky won't accept it anyhow. He either gets an excuse to delay or we just have to replay our turn and not offer Chiv. Odd, I know, but this isn't going to help us.