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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Democracy Game > Intersite DG: Apolyton Team > Incresing our Military while still in builder mode
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E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 26-02-2004 19:32
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Incresing our Military while still in builder mode Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The Ideoligy, that we can't build our Military up at the same time that we can build up our cities, i.e. super-builder vs super-Military, being supposedly, mutually exclusive, needs to be re-examnined. One of the problems, with going the super-mil approach, is that we would be signaling to the others, that we have cut our Iron.

This would make our ally, CFC nervious and the others would say that we are building up to take them on.

This doesn't HAVE to be the case. The way that the game works is:
1) that you can only build the units that you have the resources for.
2) Also, If you are building an obsolite unit AND you get a new technology (any tech), that your builds will automatically upgrade.

So, by these facts, we ONLY need to have our Iron cut on the turn that we begin a build and that we can have it reconnected even while still building the older unit, as long as we don;t get a new tech before the older unit is completed.

So, after the REX/palace move has been completed, and a few needed things (like Aquaducts) are built in our Barracks cities, we can still persue a quick military build up and NO ONE will know that we are doing such.

How do we do this, first of, we sacrifice a bit of trade and worker movements to get things set up. We pillage our Iron sources, while we have workers ready to rebuild the Mines, afterwards, they lose 1 move moving off to other things. The various Iron sources will have full production capabilities while not having any trade (or full trade, if on river), because they won;t be connected.

Then, when we are ready, we have 6 workers and 1 mil unit on our last connected Iron. AT the begining of the turn, we pillage the Iron, set the builds that we want to (i.e. Horseman) and then with the workers, reconnect the Iron (same turn) and start the new Mine (2 turns). The way that PBEM worker actions work, that mine will be up and running and will still contribute to the cities builds as if it was never gone. And all we have to do, is make sure that we don't get a tech on the turns that we are doing this, so that they don't Auto-upgrade.

The main thing, is that we can do this ENTIRELY under the radar of everyone else. As far as anyone will know, we will be building Knights at 70su each, where we will be cranking out Horseman at 30su each!!

And if we get Leos, either with our GA or some other method, we can have an army that is ready to upgrade at any moment.

MoI E_T

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 26-02-2004 21:30 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Leo's!

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 26-02-2004 21:38 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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I have a feeling GWT will beat us to Leo's... but it's my favorite wonder and we would be very wise to at least go for it.

Other than that, I agree with E_T's plan completely

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 26-02-2004 21:44 Visit Trip's homepage!
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We have a lot of wonders coming up soon. As I've said in chat elsewhere, maybe we can start planning for a big grab at them now. The ones coming up are Leo's (assuming GWT doesn't get it), Smith's, Copernicus' and Newton's. We could even go for Sistine's or JS Bach if we wanted to.

So many opportunities for wonders... all we have to do is find places and time to build them.

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

Emperor
Vincent Returns!!!
Feb 2003
time: 21:34
  Old Post 26-02-2004 22:59
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I could be way off base, but I was under the impression that the build queue would not switch to the newer unit ONLY if you had more than half the shield cost of the older unit already complete before the resource (in this case iron) gets reconnected. I've never really tested it so I'm not positive I'm right, but has anyone tested this recently?

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 26-02-2004 23:21 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Rhoth: actually tested it rather recently. All of our Horsemen builds were changed to Knights when we got Chivalry (irregardless of how many shields were already accumulated).

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 08:20
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Rhoth, if you have a horsemn build that is just about to be completed and you get a new technology (from any means), your build will auto-upgrade to a knight before it would have been built as a Horseman.

E_T

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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Feb 2003
time: 21:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 08:26
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I'm not talking about point 2 above, I'm talking about building units afterward. If you cut the iron and start a horseman, I thought you had to have at least half the shields for the horseman already done when you reconnect your iron for it to remain as a horseman instead of auto-upgrading.

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

Emperor
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Feb 2003
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  Old Post 27-02-2004 08:47
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Okay I just tested it for myself and I withdraw my assumptions. All of the horseman builds I had whether at over half or not stayed as horsemen when I connected iron. Now I'm wondering where I got that idea from.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 09:52 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Rhoth: cutting or reconnecting resources has no effect. Getting a new technology (e.g. Chivalry) will change all Horse builds to Knights.

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

Emperor
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Feb 2003
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  Old Post 27-02-2004 10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Rhoth: cutting or reconnecting resources has no effect. Getting a new technology (e.g. Chivalry) will change all Horse builds to Knights.


Like I said I never paid much attention to that before. I just needed to check it out for myself.

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 12:58
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rotfl @ Trip's new avatar

Dominae is offline Dominae
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Jan 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 21:21
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quote:

The Ideoligy, that we can't build our Military up at the same time that we can build up our cities, i.e. super-builder vs super-Military, being supposedly, mutually exclusive, needs to be re-examnined.


The idea is this: if you're building military units, you're not building city improvements and losing gpt; if you're building and rushing city improvements, you're not building military units. They're not mutually exclusive, but it just so happens that if you do both at the same time you're going to suck at both.

Your plan for disconnecting the Iron makes a lot of sense, but has little to do with your introductory comment (quoted above). The more important question is not whether CFC or GWT cares that we're building military, it's whether or not building our military will be good enough to win this game. Similarly for building up our economy first.


Dominae

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 21:32 Visit Trip's homepage!
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Chances are that the next big war will be a Cav war if anything. Right now the only Knight war going on is CGN-GWT and by the time we'd ever get involved we'd be at the very least close to Cav.

We can still do the cutting iron scheme, but the upgrades will be even more expensive... if we can get Leo's an insta-upgrade army is a very impressive reality... Horse-to-Cav upgrades for only 50g. That's 20 Cav from Horses with only 1000g (which we almost have). I think Leo's should definitely be one of our priority wonders that we get started on ASAP (after Palace jump?).

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
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Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 23:06 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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I agree we should go for Leo's, in fact we should have gone for Leo's WAAAY before (something some of us had insisted on months back), frankly if GWT has any speck of Civ skills they should be building it right now and probably will beat us to it.

Obviously if we don't get Leo's we can get Adam Smiths perhaps...

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 27-02-2004 23:11 Visit Trip's homepage!
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We will get Economics eons before GWT will. If we don't get Leo's, we'll definitely get Smith's. In fact, if GWT isn't doing Leo's now, we should get that one too.

We should just start 4 or 5 wonder prebuilds and send 'em off and finish things when we get the techs.

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