27-02-2004 19:50									#1
	What future technologies do we want to see in civ4? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, it's obvious from the end-time threads that most people are leaning towards a time of about 20 to 30 years after the game is released, and only a few are going for a further date. Almost everything is for that bloody spaceship! I think it's important to have more useful, non-spaceship sciences in the modern age because the time it takes to build research labs and manufacturing plants in every city by that time is the same amount of time needed to end the game, and often people end the tech tree far too early in the game. In short, the modern age doesn't offer much change right now.

Taking into acount that 20 year time so we don't have to extrapolate a few centuries worth of tech, what non-spaceship techs could civ4 have and what would they offer? My thoughts on the near future and present:

The internet tech: prerequisites are Miniturization and Syntheitic fibers. It would allow you to build a Server in any city with a Library and that would increase gold revenue and science. A Research Lab can only then be build in a city with a Server. It could also produce a Wonder with the advance of the Superconducter: The Mainframe which would put a serever in every city on the continent.

The gps tech: prerequisites are Satellites, Synthetic fibers and Internet. The gps (and other personal cadgets soldiers have nowadays like infragoggles, body armour and whatever) has greatly increased the potential of foot units to quordinate in battle, giving an upgraded unit of marines and paratroopers. Or even better a totally new unti to replace marines and paratroopers: the SAS, or Navy Seal, which is a stronger paratrooper/marine combo? This could also be a tech which gives the small wonder of a mobile-phone network, increasing gold revenue in all cities by a percentage?

The Hydrogen-fuel cell tech: Replacing petrol cars with cars run on hydrogen. Prerequisites are robotics and ecology. Gives the possibility of a small wonder, The Hydrogen plant, which can only be consrtucted in a city with some form of Powerplant (solar, hydroelectric or nuclear). Cuts the emmision of pollution from all cities (kind of like the Mass Transit only more so, because lets face it not everybody takes the metro).

The Cloning tech: Uh oh! this is a contriversial one that the fascists and commies are gonna abuse! Prerequisite: genetics (duh) and synthetic fibers. Since this is the near future there isn't gonna be any of that clone-army crap which would need accelerated growth vats and whatnot. This is cloning as we know it today. A building called the cloneing center, which can only be built in a city with a research lab. This cloneing center would increase food reasources of the city (genetically modified foods and cattle cloning). It could also give a Wonder which republics and democracies will not be able to build: the human bla bla bla, which would replace that longetivity vaccine wonder. Lets face it the democracies don't need that leg up, but commies and fascists do!

Any other ideas guys?

	27-02-2004 22:30									#2
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It will be hard to make significant changes to the tech tree and still be accepted by most fans.

Anyway I prefer to find out when I open the box.

	28-02-2004 03:26									#3
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I like the idea of replacing the Longevity Vaccine. That one has always seemed a little farther away than 2050.

I have no qulams with your list, but cannot really think of anything myself. I have a hard enough time keeping up with current tech!

	28-02-2004 05:40									#4
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 It will be hard to make significant changes to the tech tree and still be accepted by most fans. Anyway I prefer to find out when I open the box.

Every version of civ, and its clones, has made significant changes to the tech tree.

All I want is for teh tech tree to be boolean, and structured in such a way that it isnt actually possible to "max out" the tech tree.

	28-02-2004 08:55									#5
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I like your tech ideas for the most part, although I'm not sure if I like all of your proposed effects... I do like the idea of having 'The Internet' as a tech instead of the way it is now (as a wonder).

One tech that needs to be brought back is the 'Fusion Power' tech from Civs 1 & 2.

	28-02-2004 09:01									#6
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You know, we've been 30 years away from fusion power for the last 30 years now. I think "future tech" should be renamed "fusion power".

	28-02-2004 18:06									#7
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Well, fusion power is definately something I want in there. I can't beleive I forgot it. Even if we have been waiting 30 years for it, if you can have a spaceship to alpha centauri then you can have a fusion reactor along with fusion bombs and fusion mobile phones... (wait, what did I say? )

what do you mean lazjar with boolean?

	28-02-2004 18:26									#8
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I really hope they ditch 'integrated defense'. What a terrible excuse for a final tech. Bring back fusion power!

	28-02-2004 21:01									#9
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without intergrated defence how do we stop nukes?

	28-02-2004 21:08									#10
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone Well, fusion power is definately something I want in there. I can't beleive I forgot it. Even if we have been waiting 30 years for it, if you can have a spaceship to alpha centauri then you can have a fusion reactor along with fusion bombs and fusion mobile phones... (wait, what did I say? ) what do you mean lazjar with boolean?

Boolean refers to the and/or/not type logic used by search engines. This would allow for a far less linear tech tree in civ.

jon.

	28-02-2004 21:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone without intergrated defence how do we stop nukes?

You don't.

	28-02-2004 21:28									#12
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hey, I'm all for boolean (now that I am no longer an ignorant fart)!

Not stopping nukes? um....
well, seeing as the US is now working on an sdi thingy I don't see it as unrealistic, but maybe it should be a wonder. And anyways, nukes should be expanded to include lowyeald tactical warheads for battlefield use.

How this for a new modern technology:

The optic fiber tech. prerequisites is synthetic fiber. what could we do with this?

	29-02-2004 01:56									#13
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I think that the permitted techs should be the ones that we can say have a fairly chance to get out and running. Now, which ones would that be? I guess we'd need to know what are the techs researched out there.

	29-02-2004 04:24									#14
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone Not stopping nukes? um.... well, seeing as the US is now working on an sdi thingy I don't see it as unrealistic, but maybe it should be a wonder.

Nevermind that there's no indication that the US system will actually work (and every indication that it won't), and plenty of signs that it will just lead to an arms race that will make it quickly obsolete (if something that doesn't work in the first place can be made obsolete...).

jon.

	29-02-2004 05:51									#15
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It'd never work against a determined superpower; they'd just use countermeasures, like MIRVs. It's supposed to defend against 'rogue states'; which don't exist in civ.

	29-02-2004 06:38									#16
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As we all know, rogue states don't use ballistic missiles though. They use aircraft.

If I were a rogue nation, and I had a nuclear explosive device, and I wanted to use it against the USA (I'm not to all three before you ask), the last method I would consider for delivering it is at the end of an ICBM. Far too easy to spot. But this is getting too political.

SDI defence is an established part of civ lore, so it wouldn't be right to remove it. It is also futuristic - Star Wars and SW2 programmes aren't SDI as civ would consider it.

	29-02-2004 10:38									#17
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lajzar is right. SDI has been part of Civ since the beginning. I don't care how improbable it is in real life, it should be in Civ 4. Plus, I think there has to be some sort of defence against nukes.

	29-02-2004 13:16									#18
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I there a Star Wars technology in the Civ games? that would be cool, kinda like in the end of Akira! Oooh, or maybe you can get that great monolith from 2001: A space odyssey! Thta would be too cool, but it wouldn't make much sense though.

	29-02-2004 13:37									#19
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There isn't, and if you mean Star Wars as in the movies, I sincerely hope there never will be. The Civ paradigm breaks when you move it into space imho.

When I mentioned Star Wars, I was referring to the official name given to Reagan's original SDI programme.

	29-02-2004 14:41									#20
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quote: Originally posted by lajzar You know, we've been 30 years away from fusion power for the last 30 years now. I think "future tech" should be renamed "fusion power".

Hey, that'd be pretty funny. It could go like this:

Fusion Power 50% (We're halfway there!)
Fusion Power 75% (3/4s now!)
Fusion Power 87% (Almost made it!)
Fusion Power 94% (Almost!)
Fusion Power 97% (Almost!)
Fusion Power 99% (Closer!)
Fusion Power 99.5% (Next time I'm sure of it!)
Fusion Power 99.75% (Wait for it!)
Fusion Power 99.87% (etc.)

Heh.

[ok]

	29-02-2004 16:33									#21
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quote: Originally posted by lajzar As we all know, rogue states don't use ballistic missiles though. They use aircraft.

Except for North Korea, of course, which is in the habit of lobbing missiles at Japan. Fortunately, it keeps missing.

	29-02-2004 20:30									#22
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I believe that some people went dogmatic: SDI always were there, SDI always should stay.

SDI may have been adapted in Civ 1-2-3, but it does't mean that our present knowledge it still is.

	29-02-2004 22:29									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Trifna I believe that some people went dogmatic: SDI always were there, SDI always should stay. SDI may have been adapted in Civ 1-2-3, but it does't mean that our present knowledge it still is.

	01-03-2004 01:36									#24
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There's a reason for being dogmatic. It's kind of a comfort to know that certain things in the game will be the same, even if other things have changed. This includes SDI (aka "Star Wars"). I like how SDI was implemented as a small wonder in Civ 3. I was kinda disappointed when Civ 3 had no 'Fusion Power' or Elvis though.

	01-03-2004 09:01									#25
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How about units with SDI capability...i.e. a Delta Clipper? Also, I'd like to see a Superconducting Supercollider small wonder.

	01-03-2004 13:07									#26
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I think SMAC had an interesting system. SDI defences were satellites. Each one had only a 50% chance of stopping a missile, but you could build as many as you like. Of course, each one could only be used once a turn, making teh defences vulnerable to swamping with multiple attacks.

	01-03-2004 23:14									#27
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Maybe it's about time for a poll?

	02-03-2004 07:48									#28
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lajzar, thanks for bringing up the SMAC satallites! SDI could be well handled this way I think. Perhaps this sort of "space game" could be well done in Civ 4 as well.

I hate the "space layer" of CtP fame and want no such thing in Civ. But the possibility to build SDI satallites, spy sats, and even research or commercial sats (boosts to research and commerce, of course) would be really fun. The costs need to be high enough and the results balanced so that the late game doesn't become "build nothing but satallites until you can buy the spaceship," but it seems like a fun idea.

Ceratinly better than building "SDI" in all of your cities, anyway.

	02-03-2004 13:15									#29
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Yeah, defintely no space layer. I'm not against layers per se, but each layer should be fully rounded. That means it should have terrain and the possibility for building cities.

So, undersea makes sense. Subterranean makes sense. Heck, in that context even Hollow Earth and Magic Myrror make sense. But unless you are going for a magical race that builds cities in the clouds, a stratosphere layer is silly (they are better ways to do high altitude aircraft), and a space layer is even sillier(not even clouds for terrain).

If we are going to implement sea cities, undersea cities should be undersea. Perhaps we could also have floating cities as a prelude to undersea cities.

But I favour the basic game having as little futuristic tech as possible, or at least an option for players to exclude those from individual epic games (kind of like a "What tech level do you want the game to end" selector, similar to all the other selections made when setting up the game).

	03-03-2004 07:23									#30
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NO SEA CITIES!!!!!