04-03-2004 16:46									#211
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I can live with the ads. Keep'em coming!!!

	04-03-2004 18:55									#212
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin *SNIP* Paying to get rid off ads is not really the problem as far as I am concerned, I am actually afraid that this would be the beginning of a new process leading to a fully paying site. *SNIP*

Absolutely agree.

Its a slippery slope... plus you start to intrude more into the privacy area when you charge (particularly by credit card)... each user becomes more identifiable than a dynamic IP plus cookie.

No, thanks.

	04-03-2004 20:57									#213
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle MarkG, not to be off topic from the paying subscriber idea, but have you ever been approached from a company wanting to do a promotion on the site? Like an active give away contest, or a themed promotional period for a movie, game, etc..? I know some promotions involve the annoying popup or entrance screen before you can proceed to the forum, but has anything else been discussed?

There have been 1-2 occasions that we run ads that came after a more direct deal with the advertised instead of through an ad network.

i suppose we could use an ad inventory sales team

	04-03-2004 20:58									#214
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV what's the price (even a ball park estimate)??? what are the goodies??? what kinda of sorry sales job is this.

this was an introductory marketing research effort

quote: as a member of apolyton for years now (and the holder of the best name), one would think posters like myself would get a price break or first years membership free. remember - it's the loyal posters that have made apolyton what it is - it's almost more my site than markg's.

this is actually a pretty interesting idea

	04-03-2004 21:03									#215
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Paying to get rid off ads is not really the problem as far as I am concerned, I am actually afraid that this would be the beginning of a new process leading to a fully paying site.

- the "full paying" sites idea has failed.
- the "partially free content / partially non-free content" idea requires a much much much larger initial audience (gamespot, salon, etc) to start with

offering services is actually the only viable way to go for us...

	04-03-2004 21:07									#216
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins Its a slippery slope... plus you start to intrude more into the privacy area when you charge (particularly by credit card)... each user becomes more identifiable than a dynamic IP plus cookie. No, thanks.

since 1996 (that the predecessor sites of apolyton begun), Dan and I have been storing thousands of people's e-mail addresses. the indication that we would anything with user personal data is actually insulting

	04-03-2004 22:03									#217
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MarkG since 1996 (that the predecessor sites of apolyton begun), Dan and I have been storing thousands of people's e-mail addresses. the indication that we would anything with user personal data is actually insulting

Nevertheless, I'd say that a financial transaction requires disclosure of a lot more than just an (free anonymous in my case) email address. I've seperated out any online activity not requiring financial information, and use different individually created email accts for financial transactions.

	04-03-2004 22:30									#218
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins Its a slippery slope... plus you start to intrude more into the privacy area when you charge (particularly by credit card)... each user becomes more identifiable than a dynamic IP plus cookie.

I thought the very interest of PayPal was that this company was entirely in charge of the information, and that there was no account info that transpired to the reciever.

	05-03-2004 01:21									#219
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I don’t know if anybody has mentioned this, but sites with an add free charge often end up putting a lot of advertising junk on. This makes more people sign up for the ad free.

so I have voted no. if the vote goes the other way can we please have a promise to keep the amount of adverts we already have. I can’t afford any subscription fee and don’t want to be spammed into the stone age.

	05-03-2004 01:41									#220
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm not going to search through two of these threads, but Mark or Dan has said that:
"If the subscription is succesfull, the adds for non-paying members might even go down"

There is a reason why this site the best on the net, you know

	05-03-2004 02:28									#221
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

What the people worried about this development don't seem to realize is that Markos and Dan do NOT care about the money. If they were in it for the money, Apolyton would never exist in the first place: they have explained us in the past that it used to be that the site (and it's predecessors) was actually loss-making, they had to throw in their own money just to keep it running. They were running it anyway, because they cared so much about it.

Time and time again have they refused to sell out while they had a perfect opportunity to do so. Countless times have they refused donations and the like (they are uncomfortable with the idea of getting something for nothing -- something some of the people here could learn something from), have they kicked out advertisers that published unacceptable ads (with spyware, porn or other undesirable content), have they paid the bills out of their own pockets, etc. If they were even remotely interested in the money, they wouldn't have done any of these things.

On top of that, they only wanted to offer this extra service after EXTENSIVE whining by people who want to get rid of the current pop-up and other ads, want a more reliable server/connection, or just want to be able to support the site more than is currently possible. And even now that they *are* planning to offer this service, they are even announcing that they will decrease the amount of ads for non-paying visitors as soon as the financial situation allows for it. They're obviously only interested in making enough money to ensure the survival of this site, nothing less but also nothing more.

This is not a slippery slope, nowhere near it. Anyone who even remotely knows these two great guys can tell you that, as far as Apolyton is concerned, making money is the very LAST thing on their minds. They only want to provide the best possible service to the Civ community, and if that means giving people the option to not see ads for a small fee, then they are willing to make the effort to make that possible. Not for their own sake, but for us, the visitors, the Civilization community.

Last edited by Locutus on 05-03-2004 at 02:36

	05-03-2004 05:27									#222
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Amen.

	05-03-2004 05:32									#223
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

(except I prefer "persuading" as opposed to "whining" )

	05-03-2004 06:27									#224
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Thank you, Locutus, that is what I tried to say. Mark and Dan are real hero types for all their effort. Hopefully, we can help share the load with our subscriptions.

Monk

	05-03-2004 06:52									#225
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well said Locutus. I propose we put that block of text in bold above every thread in this post as well.

	05-03-2004 07:01									#226
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Locutus If they were even remotely interested in the money, they wouldn't have done any of these things.

I know that Locutus and I have never imagined they could do it in order to earn some profits from Apolyton.

	05-03-2004 15:51									#227
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I would have no problem paying for ad-free apolyton.

	05-03-2004 16:11									#228
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It seems the noes have mounted a comeback.

	05-03-2004 16:26									#229
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, there are still 95 yeses.

If you account 30 $€ a year per yeasayer, that makes 2850 $€ a year for 'poly from these people alone. Definitely not too shabby.

	05-03-2004 16:35									#230
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, if all those 100 yeses follow up on their vote, I doubt it will matter much. Even at a mere €10 a year that's a considerable amount of money.

Edit: crosspost (and slight miscalculation )

	05-03-2004 17:32									#231
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This is an amazing response IMHO. The shear level of interest that this poll has inspired can do nothing but raise the awareness of the challenges that are involved in running a site of this stature. Well over 2000 views...well over 200 posts...and,at this moment, 159 opinions noted. Wow! Not to mention that the awareness of the Community Forum as a place to discuss these type issues has undoubtedly been increased.

	06-03-2004 07:05									#232
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Its a good idea, and you guys should go for it. I'd opt out myself for specific reasons:

(1) Mac platform, little here for Mac in terms of mac community involvement, etc.

(2) Currently a subscriber to IMG (Inside Mac Games) PRO ($19.95 / year), which is a similar concept MarkG is suggesting. There is still free membership at IMG, but PRO members get a few perks and the warm fuzzies for providing some funds for IMG to make improvements.

	07-03-2004 21:17									#233
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

i wouldn't pay for ad free apolyton.

is it just to stop the pop ups (most browsers already do this..), or that the top banner doesnt load?

maybe ad free apolyton will cause more headaches for setting up programming wise, don't know where the staff here stands anyway on that. just think about people accidentaly seeing ads after they pay, because of some php or db bug.

sell more poly stuff instead! like those extra large my words are backed with nuclear weapon coffee mugs, those are great

	07-03-2004 21:20									#234
	Remove this text

... and realistically only available to the US members of the forum. Shipping drives the price up for the rest of us, so we need to spend nearly $75 for each mug. And then of that, Poly gets maybe $2 if they are lucky. If you thought corruption in Civ3 was bad...

	07-03-2004 23:53									#235
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well said, Skanky!!

And smellymummy, this is not about popups, per se. As you note, anyone can block them. This voluntary effort is about a community working together to make the site better. And did I mention that it is voluntary??

With the ubiquitousness of blockers, popups will soon be dinosaurs. But, the site will still need revenue to survive. Those of us who treasure this site are trying to solve that problem. Perhaps, with this context, you might like to join us. And if you don't, that's okay, because, this part is strictly voluntary; there will continue to be the free option.

Monk

	08-03-2004 00:44									#236
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

thanks for quickly putting that in perspective skanky

and bloody monk, of course i understand it's voluntary, and no I do not feel the need to sign up. I do enjoy this site, and I've been coming here for many years. For me, apolyton goes hand in hand with my civ'ing hobby. In the past I've bought stuff from here, and I do follow various sponsor links (when it's of relevant interest), so in that context I believe that I've contributed to apolyton, and btw, will continue to do so.

the 'goodies' part could be an incentive enough for many to join, not for me though. ad free apolyton with some extra PM space, and a larger avatar doesn't justify whiping out my CC. On the other hand, if I received an email from apolyton that had a link to a place where I could buy/pre-order civ4 (or another like game) I'd be compeled to follow through because I'd want the game and I'd also like to support this site at the same time

	08-03-2004 05:37									#237
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk With the ubiquitousness of blockers, popups will soon be dinosaurs. But, the site will still need revenue to survive. Those of us who treasure this site are trying to solve that problem. Perhaps, with this context, you might like to join us. And if you don't, that's okay, because, this part is strictly voluntary; there will continue to be the free option. Monk

Very well put Monk.

quote: I do not feel the need to sign up. I do enjoy this site, and I've been coming here for many years. For me, apolyton goes hand in hand with my civ'ing hobby. In the past I've bought stuff from here, and I do follow various sponsor links (when it's of relevant interest), so in that context I believe that I've contributed to apolyton, and btw, will continue to do so.

Definately more than one way to contribute. Each person must make their own decision. This philosophy, as best I can see, appears to be that of the owners as well.

	08-03-2004 05:43									#238
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Doc It seems the noes have mounted a comeback.

But you have to disccount a lot of people that have thinked it again or so and now they support the idea. You can give a look in this thread to have an idea.

I'm also support the idea, but I have not money support yet to support the idea .

	08-03-2004 22:06									#239
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

p.s. Markos/Dan if you eventuallt decide against this can we just cut you a check anyway, some of us just can't stand popups.

A certain poster would even be willing to pay "back rent".

	09-03-2004 20:20									#240
	Put an end to popups!

I've got my paypal working, so I can give a payment to the site... now it only depends on the size of the fee (I'm just a student, you know? )...

But be sure to post new threads about it, cuz I don't read this thread anymore...