02-03-2004 15:17									#181
	Got spare money?

I'm in - Credit Card Annual Subscription please - any reasonable figure acceptable

Stu

	02-03-2004 15:34									#182
	Put an end to popups!

I don't understand why there is so much debate - I love 'Poly - come here every day and am willing to pay to maintain that priviledge. Just tell me how and how much and the money is yours.

It seems to me that there are several others in a like minded mode - and those that will always want something for nothing - or simply can't afford - I can afford - bill me!

Stu

	02-03-2004 17:22									#183
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Edit: You're probably right.

Last edited by Skanky Burns on 02-03-2004 at 18:37

	02-03-2004 18:25									#184
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm sure you intended no ill will Skanky, but you should probably edit that.

	02-03-2004 19:10									#185
	Increase Your PM Length

Shucks - missed that - anything interesting?

	02-03-2004 19:14									#186
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

No, nothing at all.

	02-03-2004 19:15									#187
	Support Apolyton

Yeah, right

	02-03-2004 19:18									#188
	Inflate your Upload Space

On a more serious note, it was a joke but I decided to remove it rather than risk offense.

	02-03-2004 21:20									#189
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns On a more serious note, it was a joke but I decided to remove it rather than risk offense.

Good move, I believe.

	03-03-2004 00:35									#190
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Just because there is no direct exchange of money does not mean you have not paid. If you avoided paying by, for instance, blocking the site's method of generating revenue, then YOU, by your action, did not pay. But it wasn't free. To claim so is being naive; which, surely,you are not. I don't need to say you are anything; your words speak for themselves. Have you perhaps heard the phrase, "You can't handle the truth." The good thing is that if this plan works, then freeloaders will no longer be a problem and the use of a popup blocker will be unnecessary. Monk

Post whatever you want. The naiveté is yours and your alone in this conversation.

Say that I'm cheap. Whatever. You just can't handle that I say you are wrong. Maybe it's you who can't handle the truth.

Your constant referals to those that think users have a right to block pop-ups are "moocher's" or "freeloader's" is absurd. Your whole argument is in fact weak to say the least. If YOU want to pay Apolyton to stop pop-ups for you, then YOU go ahead and pay them for it. I surely won't and it's out of principle and not for lack of money nor the lack of wanting to support Apolyton.

So why don't you be a good boy and pretend to be one of those Monks that don't speak for a bit?

	03-03-2004 01:12									#191
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by BigFree Post whatever you want. The naiveté is yours and your alone in this conversation. Say that I'm cheap. Whatever. You just can't handle that I say you are wrong. Maybe it's you who can't handle the truth. Your constant referals to those that think users have a right to block pop-ups are "moocher's" or "freeloader's" is absurd. Your whole argument is in fact weak to say the least. If YOU want to pay Apolyton to stop pop-ups for you, then YOU go ahead and pay them for it. I surely won't and it's out of principle and not for lack of money nor the lack of wanting to support Apolyton. So why don't you be a good boy and pretend to be one of those Monks that don't speak for a bit?

Since the service being discussed is OPTIONAL and that NOTHING CHANGES if you choose not to participate, I fail to see where you have "a dog in the race"

Secondly, The argument that you are "mooching" is Mark's, not Bloody Monk's. His posts on this subject seemed pretty clear to me...maybe I'm just naive too.

	03-03-2004 02:12									#192
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by DanQ Second, we are only going to be using PayPal for now and definitely only PayPal in the immediate future.

Ohh, grreat. This means that people like me, who don't live in USA or have a credit card that could be used without Verified by Visa, can't be subscribing to your service. Please, Dan, concider also accepting money orders, cheques and bank transfers. You're going to make people from outside USA abit crippled.

	03-03-2004 02:54									#193
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

as already discussed, going with paypal only at this time is not a matter of will.

this is what can be done now. tomorrow is another day....

	03-03-2004 03:04									#194
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

BigFree, you are wrongly mixing your contribution as a poster with your contibution as a visitor.

as a poster, you post and in return you get to participate in a forum full with other interesting people

but as a visitor, you see ads and in return you get to browse the site, since, well it remains alive this way

so you may be a good poster, but you're a terrible visitor


thanks to everyone supporting the idea, please keep on voting(one way or the other) if you havent already. we hope to have some concrete results of our efforts before the end of the month

	03-03-2004 05:29									#195
	Support Apolyton

I have nothing against ads, I loved most of the ones that were broadcast for the Superbowl. However, I dislike the way that some are delivered. Pop-ups are particulary annoying to me, that and non-solicited email with ads(spam).

I don't mind if a page has a few ads on it; heck, I expect it. I even click on a few now and then. Apolyton has had quite a few banner ads in the past. Why can't Apolyton support itself through these alone? Why can't Apolyton offer more/different services and require a subscription fee for those services as a substitute for the income normally provided through pop-ups?

Let's say Apolyton creates services that cost it $1.00 a month, per subscibed member, to provide. Then Apolyton charges a $1.25 for that service. How many $.25's does Apolyton need to support itself? This is the question that I would like to see Apolyton ask itself and it's member's.

I have already indicated I would be willing to pay for increased functionality of the site and the expansion of some of the already "free" (Moocher lover's ) feature's. I think we just need to discuss what Apolyton can do and what the members of Apolyton would be willing to pay for.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't want to pay for a service that blocks pop-ups. Since the very first time I saw one, I hated them. I don't think anyone will ever be able to change my mind about them.

	03-03-2004 06:33									#196
	Tired of ads?

I think this a is a great discussion and I would definately drop a few bucks to get some new and interesting features.

MarkG, not to be off topic from the paying subscriber idea, but have you ever been approached from a company wanting to do a promotion on the site? Like an active give away contest, or a themed promotional period for a movie, game, etc..? I know some promotions involve the annoying popup or entrance screen before you can proceed to the forum, but has anything else been discussed?

	03-03-2004 08:55									#197
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by MarkG as already discussed, going with paypal only at this time is not a matter of will.

Maybe we can just send you banknotes in unmarked brown evelopes?

	03-03-2004 10:13									#198
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Ohh, grreat. This means that people like me, who don't live in USA or have a credit card that could be used without Verified by Visa, can't be subscribing to your service. Please, Dan, concider also accepting money orders, cheques and bank transfers. You're going to make people from outside USA abit crippled.

For the record (and to be explicit):

(a) You need not have to live in the United States in order to be able to use PayPal. I cannot speak to all countries, of course, but I use the service and I live in Canada (as I'm sure many of you already know).
(b) You do not necessarily have to have a credit card in order to be able to use PayPal. They have a process in place now that allows you to withdraw monies from back accounts as well as deposit into them. I am certain that there are limits on this, as with most any feature, but all of those details can be obtained from PayPal's site directly.

-----------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	03-03-2004 13:17									#199
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DanQ (a) You need not have to live in the United States in order to be able to use PayPal. I cannot speak to all countries, of course, but I use the service and I live in Canada (as I'm sure many of you already know).

Never claimed that either.

quote: (b) You do not necessarily have to have a credit card in order to be able to use PayPal. They have a process in place now that allows you to withdraw monies from back accounts as well as deposit into them. I am certain that there are limits on this, as with most any feature, but all of those details can be obtained from PayPal's site directly.

Indeed, but the support to use bank accounts for adding funds is limited and works with very few countries or just American bank accounts ATM. eChecks are something American and I can't use a credit card that works with PayPal, so the problem is that I can't add funds to PayPal by any means as it is. Neither can many others.

	03-03-2004 15:11									#200
	Put an end to popups!

It's a fair point Dan. Even if it is possible more people will contribute if you can find a way to make it as easy as possible for the contributor. And if it is hard to use this method for many a backup might be advisable. Mark says there may be one in the future - hopefully you can work something out.

	03-03-2004 21:54									#201
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by BigFree Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't want to pay for a service that blocks pop-ups. Since the very first time I saw one, I hated them. I don't think anyone will ever be able to change my mind about them.

This is the heart of our disagreement. This is a point of view problem. What you fail to comprehend is that we all could use popup blockers if that were the issue. It's not. For folk who wish to support the site, this voluntary plan is an alternative to having popups.

But you probably have to want to support the site to understand this very subtle point.

FWIW, "silence" is not a feature of my order.

Monk

	04-03-2004 01:08									#202
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

didnt read every post. what is the price???

you might as well have started a thread - would you buy my car for a price?

what's the price (even a ball park estimate)??? what are the goodies??? what kinda of sorry sales job is this. I'm offended by the lack of info - you people just want money. as a member of apolyton for years now (and the holder of the best name), one would think posters like myself would get a price break or first years membership free. remember - it's the loyal posters that have made apolyton what it is - it's almost more my site than markg's.

	04-03-2004 01:48									#203
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Shhhhhhhs, don't tell them you've been a member for years, next thing you know, they will charge you for all of them.

-

	04-03-2004 02:12									#204
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by DanQ yaroslav: In response to your response on my... #2: I may stand to be corrected with regards to the technological limitation I cited... can you provide me with IEEE website references on this perhaps or documentation from another reputable source? Regardless, let me say that this is not a point that has been considered nor will it be entertained at this time. #4: In taking a different track from Markos' valid note on this... you refer to "internal shipment"s. I'm not quite sure I'm following you. Are you saying internally within a country? Even if Markos and I were to disseminate the CDs personally, that only covers Greece and Canada respectively. ---------- Dan; Apolyton CS

#2

quote: Obtain a free @computer.org e-mail address forwarding your e-mail to your current e-mail address as long as you are a member.

http://www.computer.org/join/benefits.htm

I don't know the techinals details, sorry

#4

It was a typo, I wanted to wrote international, sorry.

	04-03-2004 04:59									#205
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I pay $5 a year to Weather Underground for add free service w/unlimited use of radar tracking. I would do the same for this site. Yoy have +30,000 members? If only 1/3 payed $5 that would generate $50,000 a year.

	04-03-2004 05:36									#206
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

There have only been around 5600+ users who have posted in the last year. The number of active posters (defined by me as posting within the past month), who are most likely to be paying, is around 1200+.

	04-03-2004 09:36									#207
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Never claimed that either.

Hence my "explicit" note.

quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Indeed, but the support to use bank accounts for adding funds is limited and works with very few countries or just American bank accounts ATM. eChecks are something American and I can't use a credit card that works with PayPal, so the problem is that I can't add funds to PayPal by any means as it is. Neither can many others.

Your points are taken; however, they will not change our position in the now and at least into the immediate future.

First, we do not want to be in a situation where we are using multiple providers to handle the accounting portion of this process for reasons ranging from security to efficiency. Next, we want to work with a provider for which we have both positive personal experience and third-party recommendations; PayPal fits this bill. Lastly, no less within the context of the second point, we sought a provider that can offer as wide a range of accessible, cost efficient and diverse services as possible. PayPal nicely meets this criterion as well.

On a closing note, perhaps if enough people wrote into PayPal indicating their interest in using an expansion of their current offerings -- and a sufficient number of people were more or less making the same point(s) -- that they would respond affirmatively through action as well as or even instead of words.

-----------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	04-03-2004 15:30									#208
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK, I voted Yes, if the price is right.

Main reason for me, I do this side and would like to see it staying alive.

FYI, I am not using any popup-blocker as they don't really bother me, the stupid advert's in my mail-box, THAT is a different story.

Price I wouldn't mind paying: ~25€ per year or a lifetime membership (at least you can then forget about the hassle to pay every year).

For the people not having CC, we are a fairly big commmunity and somebody else you might know from here might have a CC, so you would just need to transfer the money to him/her and he/she could pay for you, no big deal really...........only problem could be for paypal/Apolyton to determine for which user the payment is......

one thing I would like to see (why I am also willing to 'pay extra'):

Better bandwidth and less downtime

I also wouldn't mind seeing an indication, like the civgroups, that you are a proud member of Apolyton

	04-03-2004 16:25									#209
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I voted no but I would like to add a few things.

Paying to get rid off ads is not really the problem as far as I am concerned, I am actually afraid that this would be the beginning of a new process leading to a fully paying site.

I agree that managing such a site is time and money consuming and that funds must be find in order to keep things going on. But the free nature of this site is also what makes it so entertaining because people all around the world can come here freely and share ideas about their favorite hobby. Until now I thought that the Apolyton spirit could be summed up like this.

I am horrified when I read serious posts about making some goodies available according to the amount of money you want, or can, pay. Another tribute to the power of money... I can't imagine it. Why not a pay per view fee, 1€ or 0.75$ the 10 web pages?

	04-03-2004 16:30									#210
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: If it ever gets to the point where one has to pay for every site s/he access, the Internet can kiss itself good-bye. noone is discussing paying to access. end of story.

Tamerlin, just in case you missed it