01-03-2004 12:22									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I already stated the reasons why I was in favor of keeping the cities for another turn, if that is not sufficient for you (and it never is) that is frankly, not my problem.

Yeah, I know what you said, but I'm just not buying it.

End of discussion for me.

	01-03-2004 12:58									#32
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BigFree since the day you stepped out of executive office all you have done is vote against and criticize practically everything the "current administration" has proposed, in some cases - like the official poll amendment thread - you have not even given a single reason on why you voted against it other than the "just because I say so" excuse. You OF ALL PEOPLE have no grounds to accuse that we vote merely for the sake of going against you because in every single poll, in every single discussion thread we have made LENGTHY arguments to support our positions.

Whether the people decide to to follow our advice, or go against it, is entirely up the individual in question. Our job is to present our case as best as possible and hope it will be good enough to convince the majority on why we did what we did. In this particular case, the citizens' opinion was different than ours, and was so overwhelmingly in favor of disbanding those cities that even though this wasn't an official poll, we felt that it did merit a replay of the save.

I will be blunt now, and forgive me for going out of line, your constant attempts to twist each and every one of our decisions into utterly idiotic fantasies of power-hungry consuls who want to do everything and have everything done our way are simply ludicrous to say the least. Of course we want things done our way! For the same reason everyone else - INCLUDING YOU - wants it done their way. Because each one of us has a different idea of what is best for this team, and each one will try and present their case as best as possible. Because ultimately THIS IS a democracy. And democracies are not a result of consensus, they are a result of compromise.

So again, I don't really give a damn if you buy our reasons. You and apparently 15 others disagreed with them in this poll. Those who voted yes proved that it was a better choice. Why you think I am lying by those reasons is utterly irrelevant since we basically voted NO the moment we played the turn (all 3 consuls were present) and decided not to disband those cities. Don't you think it would be pretty silly to have played the turn as we did initally and THEN vote we should've razed them? We did what we did for a reason and we defended that reasoning in this thread using the exact logic we used when playing the turn.

In conclusion, I am not going to tell you to end your little crusade against us. We stand by what we've said and done, if you want to believe it, so be it, if you want to continue ranting about us hungry men, go ahead, you're the one who's looking bad, not us. Coming especially form someone who frequently had total disregard for citizen opinion during your consulship I find it rather hypocritical (remember how your administration decided unilaterally to trigger our GA on the first turn of the war, and you insisted more than once that it was a consul decision so everyone just shut up? I have chat logs in case you need your memory refreshed).

Anyways, if you think our leadership is so lacking and that you could do so much better, you have two choices. You can run against us, or you can CoC us. In the meantime, I stand behind everything I've said and stand behind every vote I've placed. And I'll defend them until this game is over no matter what my position on this team is. And though I don't speak for them, I'm sure that is also the belief of every other consul, past and present who has had the honor of serving.

-MZ

Last edited by Master Zen on 01-03-2004 at 13:19

	01-03-2004 16:35									#33
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* MrWhereItsAt glares at BF and MZ (and others too)

For the love of everything in this game, can you please keep this stuff to PMs? Will at least one of you take the stance that these accusations and response after response is counterproductive, ESPECIALLY in a thread supposedly discussing game matters. and I am sure there are others in the team that would rather just not see this crap as well.

If there is a problem, work it out, but don't foist it on the rest of us by bickering so openly in the forum. That helps nothing but your PC. And people wonder why there is less activity than there once was, and why it's always the same ppl posting in threads - it's because the rest of us don't want to get embroiled in this nonsense. And is this the sort of tone Consuls and former Consuls/potential future Consuls should really be using all the time? I bloody well hope not. We all lose our cool at times (I am close to it now), but not ALL the time. Think of the team fer Chrissakes and DEAL with it on your own time,

Control yourselves, or you will be seeing more than just words from me on this.

	02-03-2004 00:48									#34
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree It was most likely out of spite because of whom posted this poll that you voted that way. Otherwise you are just a bad Civ player if you think giving GCA a chance to capture/raze a city in our possesion is acceptable. And I know you are not a bad Civ player so.... If I said the sky was blue you'd likely want to argue that with me as well. Your skills as a leader are sorely lacking. I only wish that I had time to run against you when your term comes up. I don't think you'll run the team into the ground or anything like that, but you sure could do a lot better.

BF - this post was not very helpful.

As for MZ, MrWIA is correct. We need to hold back where possible.

Let's try to get back to where we were when we agreed (or at least I was under the impression that we agreed) to bury the hatchet out here.

- Arnelos