02-03-2004 09:49									#121
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so... what happen with Haiti?

	02-03-2004 09:50									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Chilean President so... what happen with Haiti?

According to Aristide, we were so obviously concerned with Haiti that we masterminded the rebellion to overthrow him.

	02-03-2004 09:53									#123
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the last thing I heard was that besides the French and US soldiers, Chile and Canada where going to send troops.

and about Aristide, he is not in position to make any BS claim as he's doing... that country is horribly poor and the corruption is huge. He could do a lot better in his almost 10 years in power.

	02-03-2004 09:56									#124
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He had plenty of time in power to do some good things, and he didn't do anything that helped. Haiti just slid deeper into economic depression under his regime.

	02-03-2004 12:14									#125
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He abolished the army that the rich then kept around on a shoe string till they needed it to depose him.

He had a good plan, except something funny happened on the way to the forum...

	02-03-2004 13:01									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus I think I've located the problem. The solution would be for the U.S. to open its markets to Cuba and demand that they make the same kinds human rights concessions we demand from China.

Exactly.

And that is what the evil Bush said as well. We normalize relations, Castro, when you allow elections, respect human rights and open your markets to American investment. We do not demand that Castro leave or that the communist party be eliminated.

	02-03-2004 13:03									#127
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Would you invest $10 in a country where ex-soldiers feel free to hold up random passers-by on the street, and where monied interests see support for rebels to be a viable form of opposition to the government? If so, I have a nice little bridge property you may be interested in. It's in a desert, but it has a nice lake view. It is sure to be hot!

But, NYE, Aristide is gone. It was his people who were thugs.

	02-03-2004 13:07									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Exactly. And that is what the evil Bush said as well. We normalize relations, Castro, when you allow elections, respect human rights and open your markets to American investment. We do not demand that Castro leave or that the communist party be eliminated.

Not exactly.
I don't recall china having elections or respecting human rights in the U.S. sense.

Furthermore, we do business with a lot of human rights violators.

	02-03-2004 13:07									#129
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither He abolished the army that the rich then kept around on a shoe string till they needed it to depose him. He had a good plan, except something funny happened on the way to the forum...

NYE, the way Aristide talked, just like your run-of-the mill Marxist, I doubt he had any plan but to subvert democracy.

And he succeeded in that.

	02-03-2004 13:09									#130
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Oh yes, one man must be all that is wrong with a nation that has been a basket case for a hundred or more years and has required, what?, 4 different interventions by the US Marines?

	02-03-2004 13:25									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Not exactly. I don't recall china having elections or respecting human rights in the U.S. sense. Furthermore, we do business with a lot of human rights violators.

You have a point.

Still, I think we should hold out for democracy in Cuba.

	02-03-2004 13:26									#132
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Oh yes, one man must be all that is wrong with a nation that has been a basket case for a hundred or more years and has required, what?, 4 different interventions by the US Marines?

When, if ever, have they had a good government?

	02-03-2004 13:42									#133
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Exactly my point.

	02-03-2004 15:30									#134
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Francois Dominique Toussaint L'Overture

	02-03-2004 15:38									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Francois Dominique Toussaint L'Overture

Ah yes you read my sources for once!

"After two centuries of Spanish and French colonial rule, and in the wake of the French Revolution and a new government based on the "Rights of Man," Haiti's slave population began a struggle to win political rights equal to those possessed by the island's white and Creole elites. After a twelve-year struggle, in which the hero of Haiti's Africans -- Toussaint d'Ouverture -- was betrayed and died in French captivity, the island achieved independence from France in 1804 but won little equity for its predominantly slave population.

The circumstances of its birth as an independent state bestowed four potentially destructive legacies on Haitian society. First, the capture of Toussaint in 1802 passed the reins of the country to the hands of the local Creole aristocracy."

http://www.ipacademy.org/Publicatio...seHaitPrint.htm

Technically he was never a leader because he was killed before independence. He was killed by the French. Quite possibly he would of led to a better Haiti if he gained power after so valiently fighting for Haitian independence but who knows.

	02-03-2004 15:53									#136
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Does anyone know anything about the rebel leader, Guy Philippe?

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – Thousands of people cheering the ouster of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide greeted a rebel convoy in the capital Monday with shouts of "Liberty!" as U.S. Marines and French troops secured key sites in the capital.

Dozens of insurgents packing an eclectic array of weapons dating to World War II swaggered around a posh hotel, where rebel leader Guy Philippe met with members of the political coalition that opposed Aristide.

...

Philippe, the rebel leader, went into police headquarters at the plaza, and his men did not approach a half-dozen armed U.S. Marines on the grounds of the palace.

Among those at the hotel meeting with the rebel leader was Evans Paul, a former mayor of Port-au-Prince and a top opposition figure. Paul said Philippe "has played an important role."

Industrialist Charles Henry Baker, an opposition leader, said Philippe offered his troops to help maintain order amid reports of continued looting in the capital. Baker said his group welcomed the offer.

....

At the airport, U.S. and French military commanders huddled over a map of Port-au-Prince as a French military attache pointed out locations where armed pro-Aristide militants have been known to gather.

....

Haiti's crisis has been brewing since Aristide's party swept flawed legislative elections in 2000, prompting international donors to freeze millions of dollars in aid.

Opponents also accused Aristide of breaking promises to help the poor, allowing corruption fueled by drug trafficking and masterminding attacks on opponents by armed gangs – charges the president denied.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/...i-uprising.html

	02-03-2004 16:00									#137
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I actually heard that his past is pretty shady.

I think the interim President Boniface Alexandre is a former Judge who has a reputation for honesty in a very corrupt system.

Well it is my bed time... Good night

	02-03-2004 16:26									#138
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Here is an interesting piece on Haiti's internal politics from a communist publication.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/C...ysis_Haiti.html