03-05-2004 16:46									#181
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Check my comments. If we put air defenses in the threatened bases, their disposed off because their in a base. We lost three interceptor capable units in DBTS, remember.

Right now I tried to set up a trap near Zetaris. Also, once the AC's are ready, it's much harder for the drones to make such attacks since our units have 100% air protection then.

	09-05-2004 05:12									#182
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First order: obliterate Pi Square. It stalls them a bit and that way they have to drop units and let them move before reaching a base.

Since those two probes are in Believer territory anyway, I propose to let them mindcontrol two units, the rest should be disposed off by our Xchoppers and perhaps the just mindcontrolled unit(s).

The Task Force I propose to move north to another fungus tile. That way they're out of sight, and have two choices as a target if in one of those bases the defenders get under 4.

More details later.

	10-05-2004 00:33									#183
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Military Affairs orders MY 2167

Believer front:

• YangBomber on 90.80 returns to New Jerusalem and attacks the Believer on 93.77 (just south of base)
  
• Probe team of 87.79 mindcontrols the impact rover on 89.77
  
• Impact rover on 89.77 moves to 91.77 and attacks that stack of Believers there for a first time. Second time depends on the odds
  
• Chopper in New Jerusalem moves to 93.77 and starts gassing the stack on 92.78 (3-4 gas attacks, depending on the result of the impact rover), then gasses one Believer on 93.79
  
• Second probe team on 87.79 to 92.78 for mindcontrolling the last Believer on 93.79
  
• The least damaged Xchopper in Lord's Mercy gasses the Believer on 91.81 and continues to 93.81 for an attack on Blessed saviour
  
• The just converted Impact Infantry on 93.79 takes Blessed Saviour
  
• The Borg Infantry in New Jerusalem attacks the Believer on 93.71 (should be strong enough at 2/3 attack)
  
• If all went well enough an attack on Holy Fire can be done as well. But I'll better wait on the midturn for that one.

Trantor: Pi Square

• My suggestion is to hurry the AC on Pi Square but leave it undefended for now. Also hurry the probe foil in Thermal Tassagrad. If the Hive takes the bait they droptake Pi Square after which we can probe it back from them (like DBTS). Two shots at that: the probe team in Apolyton Prime and the just finished Probe foil in Thermal Tassagrad.
  We can use a GeoDropper and an Apache in Thermal Tassagrad and a DrogueDropper in Apolyton for a counter attack. Also, we have two interceptors in the area who can support such a counterattack. We have a free tech out of it at least. Even if all drop units in Arnelos are used, we should be able to military take them if probing isn't feasable. I like to take the risk!
  
• Interceptor in Zetaris moves to 74.56 and goes back to Zetaris (checking for dropped units)
  
• Interceptor on 84.62 moves one tile north, 4 tiles west and then in Zetaris

Sea territoria:

• Task force on 34.38 moves north to 33.27 (seafungus tile, thus out of sight)
  
• Transport on 52.46 moves to 53.37

So, that's it for now.
I off course request as many military hurries and production as other members are willing to give me.

Comments are welcome, especially about Pi Square (whether taking the capture risk or obliterate it right away).
I suppose I'm turnplayer again, so I'll play tomorrow afternoon (my time).

	10-05-2004 00:49									#184
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would skip hurrying the Pi Airospace Complex, were just giving the Hive AirCover if they take the base, and I dont see any plans this turn to move our own defenders IN so theirs no advantage is their?

Also why dont we move any of the units in AP north to be within striking distance of the base, the Ogree and missle troops their could help in a counter attack or capture but must move now inorder to do so.


I see now that the Probe Cruisers extra movment could come in handy here and hurrying it could be usefull, it will take 138 credits (though I still think it was a poor choice)

	10-05-2004 03:04									#185
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Hive receives a free AC anyway due to the CBA in whatever base they take. But you have a point, I keep forgetting that. I meant to hurry it for making the bait more desirable, but it is no must for me. No hurry thus.

As for moving already some units out of AP, there is a Hive 12 range chopper inthere. I need to check if it can be kept save near Pi Square, but I don't think so. Anyway, 2 drop units, 1 chopper, 2 interceptors and 2 probes are in range. If that isn't enough to take on 2 plasma garrisons, a laser rover and perhaps a chopper, then I don't know it anymore. O yes, I endorse hurrying the Xmissile rover in AP as well! Extra backup next turn.

Do you plan to post IAF orders, or can I go ahead?

	10-05-2004 06:27									#186
	Put an end to popups!

I already posted IA orders

	10-05-2004 06:36									#187
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Hive receives a free AC anyway due to the CBA in whatever base they take.

If the Hive drop into the base, as you say, it then gets a free AC (and Perim Defense & Command Center). If you probe it back it retains these facilities

But isn't it moot? they don't (yet) have a base within 8 tiles of your base.

quote: Extracted from script.txt #DROPBASE #xs 440 #wave 8 #caption Operations Director To make an air drop or orbital insertion, a unit must begin its turn in a friendly base or airbase.

	10-05-2004 14:25									#188
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I already posted IA orders

Sorry, I missed those.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie If the Hive drop into the base, as you say, it then gets a free AC (and Perim Defense & Command Center). If you probe it back it retains these facilities But isn't it moot? they don't (yet) have a base within 8 tiles of your base.

Mmm, we mindcontrolled DBTS back and I seem to remember that those Hive facilities were gone after the probing.

Check the map, Hive founded a base on the former spot of Caboolture (The Ruins), units can be dropped just outside Pi Square and the base can thus be easily taken.

	10-05-2004 18:39									#189
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I say let them take Pi. We can probe a tech from them & buy it back. Even if we don't get the free facilities, it seems to be a net gain.

	10-05-2004 19:25									#190
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Busy with it. Midsave is played, I'll sent it to Impaler.

	10-05-2004 21:48									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie If the Hive drop into the base, as you say, it then gets a free AC (and Perim Defense & Command Center). If you probe it back it retains these facilities

AFAIK free base facilities as part of a faction's characteristics sometimes remain after conquest. Free base facilities as a consequence of a secret project disappear.

	10-05-2004 22:17									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Free base facilities as a consequence of a secret project disappear.

Ah, right - my mistake

	13-05-2004 21:21									#193
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Ok, we have no capital no more. Apolyton Prime and Pi Square must have been obliterated. Logic Loop is this turn ready to construct a HQ, cost for finishing it directly next turn is about 40 ec's.
Also, Impaler's proposal to gas the eastern Angel bases is more feasible then I first thought. The two closest to ARF and MR can be destroyed/emptied to 1 pop with the use of one Xchopper and 1 tactical. We probably lose those 2 units next turn because at least 3 Hive fighters are near.

	22-06-2004 21:57									#194
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder The following moves are the first to be done for CC turn. [list][*]Transport on 64.54 moves to 74.52. [*]Probe 1: leaves transport on tile 74.54. Then turnplayer looks at the defenses of DBTSverse Portal. If enemy probe inthere, attack it, if not, check how much a mind control costs, but DO NOT yet initiate a mindcontrol. Instead, infiltrate Hive. [*]Probe 2: if probe 1 defeated by a Hive probe, kill the Hive probe. If DBTS already probe-free, steal tech. [*]Probe 3: use it to mindcontrol DBTS. Whatever the outcomes of previous probe movements, the last one MUST be used to mindcontrol DBTS (at least, if we have enough energy).

So you did use a transport with 3 probes. Kody was accusing me not reading the instruction of destroying roads. I faithfully excuted the plan, but the foresight of seeing the other possibility of couse was not what I could have come up with, being a newbie like I am.

	22-06-2004 22:02									#195
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Ah, one of my few moments of glory...

Actually, it was on it's way to Caboolture for probing the Drones, IIRC, or did we decide to sent it to Cairns to kick some Hiverian ass?

It worked since a probe which lands on a rocky tile still loses only 1 movement, so the second movement could be used to do some nasty things to uncarefull turnplayers...

	22-06-2004 22:05									#196
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Buster warned that it could be dangerous, since we didn't have enough drop garisons and probes. However if we delayed it I believe you would have complexes set up the next turn and it would be harder to go into CC territory, which was what happened exactly, that delayed the Drones Hive victory.

I guess we could have somehow blocked the strait where your transport came?

	22-06-2004 22:14									#197
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, that was the sole gap I saw for moving the probes in position. I don't know if you had enough aircraft for that, but without the strait being free, we would have had to redraw with the risk of exposure. It was a gamble, like with the hunt on the last PEACE warship covered by a Hive noodle. Your 'covering tactic' made that a reasonable gamble, but it was hell convincing other CyCon members.

	22-06-2004 22:18									#198
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder O yes, that cp, I suggest moving it to the center of that isle for the time being. Officially the other factions don't know then where it is (they can't see it, so we could have destroyed it), and if we see damage on it or it is destroyed next turn, it is another indication that other faction(s) do a lot of scout runs with the same units in parallel turns.

Another moment of glory isn't it? We didn't run parallel turns though, we had a noodle around that area so we just searched for it.

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder I certainly do not agree with any move that gets Hive away with this. It was a civilian unit, we had no plans whatsoever to found a base there, so Hive must be punished for this atrocity.

So what is your plan with that CP?

	22-06-2004 22:19									#199
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder It was a gamble, like with the hunt on the last PEACE warship covered by a Hive noodle. Your 'covering tactic' made that a reasonable gamble, but it was hell convincing other CyCon members.

Yes tell me about it. I haven't found the posts yet.

	22-06-2004 22:21									#200
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Now that I think about it, all of your moments of glory were against me. And my level of military conducts was when I first played the turn, many of my choppers stopped in the middle to have a cup of tea at their friends house, when they were supposed to fly to a different destination far away. Guess I just lack that appearance of absolute authority.

	22-06-2004 22:23									#201
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Retreating it under the 'Ceasefire' pressure from Hive I guess (the Planetary Council motion Voltair started). I thought at the time it was genuine. :shrug:

My first priority was denying PEACE to own a base close to the Hive homeland at any cost. Firstly to have a negotiation ground with a menacing Hive on PEACE's future, secondly to annoy presumed Hive plans for a Hive-protected PEACE base too close to CyCon seabases and/or Angel territory. I only succeeded half it seems. No junior victory partner for Hive/Drones...

	22-06-2004 22:30									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Also if Hivean strategists have any common sense, they will indeed have placed ships or even needlejets on the same square as the schooner.

We were supposed to have a needlejet on the same square as the schooner. I think I didn't exaughst all movements for the schooner so it flied away. And that's another reason why I felt I failed PEACE for we could have saved them twice. The first time I should have killed your probe foil, the second time I should have been able to protect the schooner from you.

	22-06-2004 22:32									#203
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Now that I think about it, all of your moments of glory were against me. And my level of military conducts was when I first played the turn, many of my choppers stopped in the middle to have a cup of tea at their friends house, when they were supposed to fly to a different destination far away. Guess I just lack that appearance of absolute authority.

No, the Believer invasion went beyond my expectation as well.

Ah yes, those lazy chopper pilots. Sometimes I forget that as well...

About that aircover, I saw Hive (you?) covering that plasma cutter near the probe foil first time, a second time occured as well I think, but don't remember the details, and with Angel infiltration info I saw that Hive noodle on a tile and about the whole Hive Navy tryin' to cover that strait again.

HongHu, you're really not good at pluggin' holes...

	22-06-2004 22:34									#204
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Retreating it under the 'Ceasefire' pressure from Hive I guess (the Planetary Council motion Voltair started). I thought at the time it was genuine. :shrug:

Of course it was genuine. We really wanted you to stop attacking the PEACE. Although we also wanted that to be the excuse of attacking you.

quote: I only succeeded half it seems.

If we had Rubin you wouldn't have succeeded.

	22-06-2004 22:36									#205
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu We were supposed to have a needlejet on the same square as the schooner. I think I didn't exaughst all movements for the schooner so it flied away. And that's another reason why I felt I failed PEACE for we could have saved them twice. The first time I should have killed your probe foil, the second time I should have been able to protect the schooner from you.

Aircover doesn't help when a ship bombards a ship. No-one in CyCon knew that as well I think when I came up with that idea.

Besides, if that probe foil was killed, we knew enough and that plasma cutter would have been dead next turn with our marines out of Hive air cover ready to strike the newly found PEACE base next turn.

O yes, and the rest of the Hive navy around Angel waters would have been on the bottom of that strait as well. There were 3 impact cruisers around.

	22-06-2004 22:37									#206
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder HongHu, you're really not good at pluggin' holes...

Pluggin' holes? What pluggin' holes?

	22-06-2004 22:40									#207
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Of course it was genuine. We really wanted you to stop attacking the PEACE. Although we also wanted that to be the excuse of attacking you.

Well, Hive did after all fire the first shot. For two turns Hive-CyCon forces were flirting with violence and it seems Hive couldn't manage the pressure...

Besides, those two remarks contradict eachother.

quote: Originally posted by HongHu If we had Rubin you wouldn't have succeeded.

In that situation, I would have, unless another noodle was in the area. But I think there were two tiles free in which I could move a cruiser in the strait near that last PEACE schooner.

	22-06-2004 22:42									#208
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Pluggin' holes? What pluggin' holes?

I rest my case

And I wrote pluggin', not unpluggin'...

	22-06-2004 22:43									#209
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Aircover doesn't help when a ship bombards a ship.

Yea I leant that too, but not sure if it would help in anyway even if I knew it in the first place.

quote: Besides, if that probe foil was killed, we knew enough and that plasma cutter would have been dead next turn with our marines out of Hive air cover ready to strike the newly found PEACE base next turn.

Huh? I don't understand. The PEACE base is supposed to be in the center of the island, so you can't use your ships. The Hive was planning to send in at least couple choppers to protect the new base too, and they can rush a scout. Wouldn't that have been enough to save the base? We have a very strong air force you know.

quote: O yes, and the rest of the Hive navy around Angel waters would have been on the bottom of that strait as well. There were 3 impact cruisers around.

What do you mean? I mean I'm really green here, more teachings please?

	22-06-2004 22:52									#210
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Mmm, not so sure about the timing anymore, but another taskforce was already on (or very near) Calico as well. So if PEACE delayed the founding of a new base with a turn, it could have run out of bases to spare... The only way Hive airforces could cover PEACE then was by committing suicide runs. The Plasma cutter would have been gone, 2 other cruisers could take care of those other Hive boats in the strait (they were within range) and the transport with marines onboard would land next turn, so 3-4 air runs were necessary to kill all those invaders. Could Hive ward off 3 cruisers and 4 ground troops then?

Besides that plasma cutter, the whole Hive navy had no armor on it's ships, impact cruisers could sink them all with 2 shots on long range fire.